[xtal_01]

Hey!



Been a few weeks but if the snow ever stops here in VT I want to start building the workshop.


It is a 52 x 64 ft building with 16 ft walls.


So, after all the posts and advice you guys gave me, I have decided building cheap will give me no end of problems.


I am planning a standard stick build with 2 x 6's on 16" centers. OSB sheathing ... house wrap ... drain plane ... siding.



I am going with a drainage plane (3/4" air gap between the siding and the house wrap covered sheathing.


Questions ....


1) What is the best house wrap? I have been told to use everything from tar paper to Tyvek to some very expensive and exotic wraps.


2) Does the 3/4" strapping need to be pressure treat? Again, I have been told to use everything from 1 x 3 non PT strapping to exterior plywood to pressure treated strapping or plywood.


3) What do I use for siding ???? OK I know this is wide open but I keep having my mind changed and I am hoping someone has experience with the two materials I am looking at.


First I wanted a board and batten look. LP smart siding makes a 16" x 16 ft siding ... $40 per piece ... plus 1 x 3 battens @ $15 each. There are primed so I would need to take into account the cost of hiring a painting crew and paint .. and hope I can have it done before winter. Also, I am just not sure how friendly 16 ft pieces of vertical siding will be to put up.


Second is Hardie plank. 7 1/4" (6" reveal) 12 ft long .. pre finished ... $14.10 each. I can use Haridie trim on the building corners but probably need wood trim for casing as it cuts a lot better. No painting except for the window casing. Cutting looks like a pain but it seems to go up easy.


So, any benefits LP vertical vs Hardie horizontal ??????


Thanks .... Mike

 

[Nealtw]

The lumber yards here sell treated 1/2" plywood that comes in 2" strips. For the contractors it might be the simplest as far as labour is concerned I am not sure it is needed. The idea of rainscreening came from houses built in the 1800s that had 1/4" spacing behind the siding and were standing up better because when they got wet they could dry. If that story is true and I have seen it myself, they did not have treated lumber back then.

 

[660catman]

Have you looked into LP Canexel siding? It comes prefinished in a variety of colours. I did my house with it 12 years ago and it still looks good. Even the gable ends which take the brunt of heat. It does require nailing strips for ventilation. Boards are 12”x 12 feet.
Easy to cut with circular saw. I used tar paper as my wrap.


Retired guy from Southern Manitoba, Canada.

 

[Marson]

The best house wrap is probably felt--if you really want to do it right, get something like Jumbo Tex two ply felt. HOWEVER, given that you are using a drainage plane, and don't live on the coast, something like Tyveck will be just fine.



I don't think your firring strips need to be treated. One thing you should consider is that your siding nail should penetrate the framing---LP calls for 1 1/2". So if you have a layer of OSB, and 3/4 firring, it's going to take a 3" nail. No real gain in using 3/4" firring vs even 1/4".



As far as product choices, I'd take LP smartside over Hardie any day. I've installed a lot of both.



16" vertical LP is an interesting idea. You ask how friendly that would be. I would say not too friendly. First, I would say you should have horizontal 2x blocking in your walls, because it will be a battle keeping a 16' piece lined up on a 16' stud. But you would actually need less equipment because you could just work along with an extension ladder or two. Don't really need to set up along the whole wall like with lap siding.



How are you even going to stand up these walls? Are you framing it yourself? If you have a crane or a telehandler or something, you could consider putting much of the siding/strapping/house wrap on before standing the wall up.

 

[ClarenceBauer]

For your Air & Moisture you can use a Liquid applied product like STO Emerald Coat.
The liquid coatings eliminate taping of the seams & is used for the framed opening protection it also is self healing around the nails or screws used for the furring / siding.

 

[xtal_01]

LP Canexel siding is only available in Canada.


Sooooo ... LP started with particle board ... now using OSB. Will it hold up as well as Hardie (cement board)?


I really like the board and batten look. I think it might be a pain in the a## to up but I do only need ladders or scaffold in one little area, not a 65 ft 16 ft high wall.

Just a bit worried about longevity of the LP (OSB).


Thoughts?


Thanks so much !!!!!!!!!!!!!


Mike

 

[Nealtw]

LP Canexel siding is only available in Canada.


Sooooo ... LP started with particle board ... now using OSB. Will it hold up as well as Hardie (cement board)?


I really like the board and batten look. I think it might be a pain in the a## to up but I do only need ladders or scaffold in one little area, not a 65 ft 16 ft high wall.

Just a bit worried about longevity of the LP (OSB).


Thoughts?

Thanks so much !!!!!!!!!!!!!


Mike

I think it depends on the type of OSB they are using the warning about painting all the cut edges makes you wonder, I would add oil base primer that.
If they were using a product like Advantech, which is a sub floor that looks like OSB but it has little effect from water and we get it plenty wet here. Then would it need horizontal strapping.

 

[xtal_01]

I agree .. the problem is both LP and Hardie give dire warnings about painting cut edges ... a bit scary.

Since I've decided to "do it right' with sheathing and a drainage screen, I want to make sure I put something on the outside that will last 40 or 50 years.


Mike

 

[Nealtw]

I agree .. the problem is both LP and Hardie give dire warnings about painting cut edges ... a bit scary.

Since I've decided to "do it right' with sheathing and a drainage screen, I want to make sure I put something on the outside that will last 40 or 50 years.


Mike

Have you looked a real cedar. With air behind it should last for ever.

 

[Marson]

LP Canexel siding is only available in Canada.


Sooooo ... LP started with particle board ... now using OSB. Will it hold up as well as Hardie (cement board)?


I really like the board and batten look. I think it might be a pain in the a## to up but I do only need ladders or scaffold in one little area, not a 65 ft 16 ft high wall.

Just a bit worried about longevity of the LP (OSB).


Thoughts?


Thanks so much !!!!!!!!!!!!!


Mike

LP smartside is a great product and I believe it is at least as durable as Fiber Cement if not more.


I used to work for an affordable housing outfit, and when I started with them all their houses were sided with fiber cement. (that was in 2005). Later, they switched to LP. We probably had 30 houses or more sided with one or the other.


Lots of callbacks with the Hardie. Had a homeowner add rock around the foundation of a house, and the water splashing on the siding caused the paint to peel. this was prefinished. Also went on a call back for siding that had broken around window cut outs. Have seen it flat out fall off of a wall because the nail blew through. Also have seen it be ruined by being left in the rain for just one rain, as the efflorescence comes through and stains the paint. Granted, these are all installation errors, but it's not a very forgiving product.


With the LP, the only problem we ever had was some carpenter didn't gap the butt joints and it buckled in the sun.


But the thing that really made up my mind was a house I remodelled that the previous owner had BANKED DIRT against the LP siding because the grade was too high in back. That siding was still intact and the paint was still holding! It had been that way for years!



If you really doubt me, get a scrap of LP and a scrap of Hardie and lay it on the lawn for a month or two. I think you are going to find out that the claim that fiber cement is "impervious to water" is nothing but marketing hype.

 

[xtal_01]

Well that makes me feel a lot better about the LP.


Funny ... my first job when I moved to VT 10 years ago was to raise up a garage. The owner had put dirt against the wall for raised flower bed. I raised it ... rebuilt the sill ... put down two rows of block ... and put the garage back down. Now bad for not having any help.


I am planning on 24" overhangs to get the water away from the building.


It looks like LP might be a bit harder to get pre finished in this area. Since you guys have convinced me to sheet the building, I can put all the siding inside and paint it with two coats of any colour (opps got a red line .. the Canadian coming out in me ...color) then put it up.

I am kind of talking myself into the LP ... I am thinking the 16 ft sheets will be a pain but less work with trim as I can put it on over top of the siding with no caulking rather than have to put the trim up first and then caulk every piece of Hardie into it.


Is this correct? Just put up the 16" x 16 ft panels and then put the battens, corners and window casing on top?


Mike

 

[Marson]

Yes you can put the trim on the surface for the most part. The issue you will have to think through is how you deal with window and door head flashing. Typically you would like to install the window into the building paper shingle style, add trim which will have a drip tin on the top, then butt the siding into the trim. If you are using a rain screen, and this is just a shop, you might be fine skipping that drip tin. Any water that gets behind that space will harmlessly drain/evaporate.

 

[Nealtw]

I would ad the flashing for the window and turn up the ends in the wind stop method.

 

[xtal_01]

OMG ... I think I am getting the hang of this! The first method of putting in the flashing on top of the window is exactly what I drew in the plans today.


I will have to look ... I didn't see any trim with a nail fin in the catalog.


I was just about to put up the following post when I saw the video you posted!


I had never heard of Diamond Kote till a few hours ago!


So, one more little glitch.

Just when I convinced myself to use the LP, I find they don't supply it finished. I talked with the factory ... they "should" be getting the finishing plant online in a few months. They have no idea (or would not tell me) how much more finished will cost over primed.

They directed me to DiamondKote. This is a third party they somehow have a relationship with to finish their product ... got a quote .... a $40 primed 16' x 16" panel jumped from $40 each to $70 each

This would add over $10K to the project.

So, I am thinking I will buy them primed and then paint them before putting them up.

Anything I need to look out for? Two coats of ???? latex paint ????

I am going a very dark gray (almost black) ... trying for the look of an old time machine shop / blacksmith shop.

Thanks .... Mike