Framed walls in basement

1407 Views 11 Replies 5 Participants Last post by stadry, Mar 3, 2020

TinyFargo

Discussion Starter · Mar 1, 2020 (Edited)

I have a semi-finished basement where a previous owner installed walls around the perimeter, and a few walls to divide the basement space.

Unfortunately, these walls were not done with pressure treated lumber. Even the bottom plate of each wall appears to be simple pine 2x4's.

Is there any shortcut to solving this problem without entirely ripping out all the walls?

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Nealtw

· #2 · Mar 1, 2020

TinyFargo said:
I have a semi-finished basement where a previous owner installed walls around the perimeter, and a few walls to divide the basement space.

Unfortunately, these walls were not done with pressure treated lumber. Even the bottom plate of each wall appears to be simple pine 2x4's.

Is there any shortcut to solving this problem without entirely ripping out all the walls?

Did they put anything under the wood, plastic, tar paper, sill gasket, roofing?

We can use any of that and we never use treated lumber.

But when finishing another house for someone else who did non of the above the inspectors had us paint the wood with the treatment for treated lumber.

If you knew there was poly below the slab you would have very little to worry about.

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chandler48

· #3 · Mar 1, 2020

I concur with Neal, but if it comes to that, you can always take a reciprocating saw, cut through the nails of the stud/bottom plate connection, pull out the bottom plate and replace it with pressure treated lumber, refastening it with toenails.

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stadry

· #4 · Mar 1, 2020 (Edited)

borate is the material retro applied to white wood here,,, but i have another ? toenail OR screws ? when we install full sub-floor leak manage- ment systems, we replace the sole plate w/p/t'd 2x4 then replace the cut off btm 2' of wall studs using wood screws,,, kosher or not ?
thanks !/B]

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chandler48

· #5 · Mar 1, 2020

You are sistering the lower 2' of studs, so screws would work, DEPENDING on the type of screw. Decking or construction screws will work fine. Others will be too brittle. But in the OP's case just cutting off the nails on the plate and sliding it out will suffice without cutting the studs short.

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Nealtw

· #6 · Mar 1, 2020

stadry said:
borate is the material retro applied to white wood here,,, but i have another ? toenail OR screws ? when we install full sub-floor leak manage- ment systems, we replace the sole plate w/p/t'd 2x4 then replace the cut off btm 2' of wall studs using wood screws,,, kosher or not ?
thanks !/B]

Normally anything will work, but sometimes if the joists are at there limits for span, that wall can be a bearing wall to take the bounce out of it.

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TinyFargo

Discussion Starter · #7 · Mar 1, 2020

Walls are definitely not load bearing. House was built in the '60s, but all this handyman from hell stuff was done by the second owner who owned the house in the early 2000's, who I bought it from.

The walls are framed out with clear wood and there's regular pink panther insulation between the studs. Thin sheet plastic was installed on the interior side of the framed wall...again, on the interior rather than against the concrete. It would have been so much easier if it was on the other side. On top of the sheet plastic, rather than using drywall, the walls are a thin plywood.

I'm thinking of getting a dumpster and starting over, but I thought it was worth checking to see if there was an easier way to address it.

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JYL

· #8 · Mar 2, 2020

Regarding the pink panther insulation: If it seem OK, don't disturb it.

Normally, on the concrete side, you apply plastic sheeting up to -- and only up to the ground line (outside). (Now they recommend to use a House wrap instead). This one is loosely overlay without trying to seal the overlay joint. (This is in case their is water seeping trough.) Furthermore, this is this layer of plastic that is suppose to pass under the bottom plate. (to protect untreated wood).

You apply the pink panther stuff between the stud.

On the Interior site, you apply a 4 or 6 mil plastic sheeting. This is the most important one and it must be properly sealed. Don't let it on "Craft paper". If you prefer, you may use some "Aluminium single bubble product" such as brand "Reflectix." It must also be properly sealed.

In some jurisdiction, Treated wood is forbidden in any habitable space including basement (OK in Crawl space and attic only or bellow ground for the foundation). They are death serious about it too. If they found any, they can declare the house "unsanitary" and force a professional decontamination.

I used this method in both Québec Canada and Seattle USA. In Québec, i did have to open a wall after 20 years... Everything did look perfect... actually, even the wood seem new. (2x3 not treated).

In USA, same thing but only after 4 years.

REF: Government of Canada recommendation:

https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy-effi...ping-heat-chapter-6-basement-insulation/15639

Look for section --> 6.2.3 Frame wall with single or double layer of batt insulation

Now, they recommend that the "plastic sheeting" touching the concrete be replace by a "House Wrap".

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chandler48

· #9 · Mar 2, 2020

If they found any, they can declare the house "unsanitary" and force a professional decontamination.

I may have to call the BS Police on this one.

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JYL

· #10 · Mar 2, 2020

I live in Seattle for the last 5 years. For some reason, it is much much harder to google content in Canada. It always come back with a USA story somewhere.

I have link another forum of Canadian PRO. They said that the Ontario building code permit UC1 and UC2 treated wood. But if you read all theses PRO, many will tell you that you should only use it for the base plate or not at all.

https://trustedpros.ca/forum/home-improvements/can-you-use-pressure-treated-wood-inside-a-home

I have found a similar one in Québec French... They don't want much treated wood at all. However, these text do not "Google translate well" at all. Suffice to said that "Préservative" get translated by "Condom" and the house have ED problems somewhere.

---

The origin of the crisis in Québec (Around 1998):

I know their was an accident in a camping ground in Québec. Somebody (a tourist) was burning some CCA treated wood -- and a child playing 100 feet away or so needed to be rush to the hospital. I don't even know why: Was it some allergy -- was it poisoning? I don't know,

Then, a few week later, a fire started in a very large out building of Québec Sépaq (National park). The firefighters rushed to the blaze and later, we learned that 2 of them were treated for mild poisoning.

This started a very big talk in the French population. A lot of pressure has been put on Rona (similar to HomeDepot -- Now own by US Lowes) to find alternative and remove CCA treated wood from the shelf -- and they come back with Plastic Deck and others stuff -- but CCA wood remain on the shelf for a few more years.

By itself, the Canadian (and Québec) Government was somewhat slow to react -- mostly refusing to recommend any treated wood alternative has safe. They emit a statement, something to the effect it is safe when use outside and don't let your toddler crawl on it.

Finally, especially in Québec, Many believe the US EPA when it said a product is dangerous... but they have no confidence in the EPA when it say something is safe. Go figure.

Anyway, this become a very big stuff including "Water Pollution", risks for fireman, Risk for Wood Worker, Risk for mills worker, etc... Many university researcher have talk a lot on TV. A lot of law/code have been changed.

Some locality in Québec might have gone overboard. (Or they imitated a New-York emergency because of asbestos -- who knows)

Here another person that seem not to use Treated Lumber systematically:

Nealtw said:
We can use any of that and we never use treated lumber.

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chandler48

· #11 · Mar 3, 2020

In basements where you are building on a concrete slab, you use pt for the base plate only. All other framing is standard wood components. We also separate the concrete from the PT with sill seal. On all other floors no PT is used for any of the framing. Today's pressure treated chemicals are not "deadly" unless you eat an 8' 2x4. Then you may have adverse effects. The base plate will be covered by a wall covering, so even if there were deadly components to the PT lumber, how would it get to the atmosphere?

Like I said, use products for the need and don't go off the deep end with hype.

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stadry

· #12 · Mar 3, 2020

chan, ALWAYS construction screws,,, p/t'd ONLY for sole plate in bsmnt where there's contact w/conc floor

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