[wndnns]

I am a new member & this is my 1st post. I live in central Canada & for the last 4 springs I have had some water run under my tiled basement flooring. This only happens for a few weeks in spring & then dry the rest of the year. This spring I decided to remove the wall paneling & insulation. I found a 12 foot horizontal crack which runs from one basement window to the other. It is a very narrow crack. Not even wide enough to fit a dime into. I did see 3 or 4 spots where water was trickling from. This crack is on my driveway side of the house & would require breaking some concrete sidewalk & possible removing my concrete stairs if they can't work underneath. I have had 4 companies give me estimates. To fix it from outside through excavation the length of the wall is between $5500 & $7200 and will require me to do some repair work afterwards. I had another quote where this would be fixed from the inside using epoxy resin injections. This cost would be just under $2000. All quotes required steel wall bracing to be used. The outside repairs all came with a 15 year warranty while the inside repair came with a 10 year warranty. I am confused on which way to repair this situation. Can somebody please offer their opinions & experiences with these repairs. Epoxy resin injections are much cheaper & less destructive but are they reliable. I welcome all opinions. Thanks

 

[joecaption]

Classic question.
Waterproofing needs to be done outside not inside for it to be a long term fix.
Really think any of these company's will even be in business in 10 years?

 

[stadry]

gee, for $7K, you could buy 3 1/2 resin injections,,, if the item hadn't proved worthwhile, no dot engineer/specifier would allow it,,, canadian dot's use it,,, we have for the past 25yrs,,, even today i'm not aware of any failures of 2-part hydrophyllic polyurethane

why the steel wall bracing ? is it conc or block ? conc shouldn't need it

 

[wndnns]

The wall is concrete. All the quotes I received except one recommended some amount of bracing was required. The inside epoxy resin injection quote would not give any type of warranty without the bracing. Thanks for the input as I am still trying to decide what route to take

 

[Canarywood1]

I agree with stadry, why the steel bracing, other than to drive up the price of the repair.

Heres an article that may help answer some questions.

http://www.emecole.com/pages/founda...iding-between-epoxy-or-polyurethane-foam.html

 

[wndnns]

I was told that because it was a horizontal crack that the wall needs to be stabilized. I got 5 different companies come out and only one didnt recommend bracing. I do have a couple more companies still coming out so i will see what they recommend. I did post on here to get other opinions. Thanks for everyones information.

 

[Daniel Holzman]

The wall would require bracing if the wall is bowed, or out of plumb, and still moving. You can check plumb and bowed with a four foot level or a laser level. Determining if the wall is still moving is more difficult, and usually requires installation of crack gages and monitoring for a year or so.

The epoxy injection is only intended to stop water infiltration through the crack, it adds no strength to the wall, so if the wall is bowing, and in the opinion of the contractor unstable, that would be an indication that bracing is needed. But I would want to see the evidence that the wall is bowed or out of plumb and still moving before I decided to brace.

 

[wndnns]

Is the epoxy injection a permanent solution to my repair? I am very excited about the possibility of not having to do the exterior excavation & of course the much lower price but I also want to be able to close up my interior wall knowing that it won't leak next spring. Anybody have any views on the inside repair either negative or positive?

 

[Daniel Holzman]

If the wall is actively moving, the epoxy injection will not be a permanent solution, as new cracks are going to open up. If the wall is stable, the epoxy injection will stop water infiltration at the crack it is applied to, if properly done by an experienced contractor. However, if there is high groundwater outside your house, and you close up one crack, water may begin infiltrating elsewhere. Exterior control of groundwater is always the most positive solution, but after the fact it can be expensive, as you have discovered.

 

[wndnns]

The wall is not bowed out & I don't think the wall is actively moving but would having the wall bracing provide any assurance that the wall will not move in the future. I don't mind paying for the bracing for peace of mind if it will help. It is still a much cheaper solution & less destructive. I still do have a concern though that what if its also leaking on that wall in other locations other than where the crack is located. I really think its only leaking at the crack though. Now that I have the inside wall exposed would running a hose against the outside wall provide a suitable test? I previously only noticed spring seeping.
Thanks for your reply

 

[stadry]

' don't think ' is small reassurance if it does move in the future - you'd be surprised how much lateral soil pressure can be exerted against conc fnds,,, vertical steel beams are NOT satisfactory as the thrust load is typically transferred upward to the floor joists,,, the ONLY way i'd allow ANY bracing is to use lead drop-in's on the bsmnt floor, lag a steel beam to the floor, install another steel beam lagg'd to a conc wall OR beam lagg'd to a cmu wall

uncertain if its a suitable test or not,,, if enough wtr collects & shows up thru the crk, i'd posit it is suitable,,, don't forget plugging the dike does NOT remove the wtr - it'll find another spot sooner or later

 

[wndnns]

I am leaning to fixing my problem from the outside. The latest company that I had come out to give a quote said inside bracing is not required. He mentioned after excavation the pressure from the clay soil on the wall will be relieved. So now out of 6 quotes 2 of them said inside bracing wasn't required. 3 said the inside bracing was required while 1 company said probably required. I will have 1 or 2 more companies coming out b4 making my decision. I am staying away from the epoxy injections in case the wall is leaking in other places other than the crack. Also the inside repair company said bracing would be required.
Thanks

 

[carpdad]

Just in case you're being lead around by your nose...
Did you say to the estimators: I was told in the forum....
Before you spend the money, read the answers again. It takes at least a year to test if the foundation wall is moving and any bracing needs an anchor. What I hear from you is -I think-, no observations.
My recommendation is step back and start real observation.
Soil pressure can be relieved, but that means a lot of work=costly, and that is before even repairing the crack, which you assume is source of water. Soil amendment is temporary as well, because there is more soil behind local amendment.
Where is the water coming from? If the crack is along the level of the windows, isn't the crack above ground? Then why break into under the ground?
I think you must give yourself time to think. You can also hang a string with a weight by the wall. Glue a gauge to the wall with a line drawn along the string. Keep watch. What happens in 3 months?

 

[wndnns]

Thanks for your reply. The crack is hairline like. The crack starts just above ground at the window then dips down a couple feet underground and comes up just above ground level at the next window. It for sure leaks at the low point of this crack but an excellent point by you that I never considered. Maybe the water is entering above ground and running down the crack and leaking at the low point. I will check this possibility out with a hose hopefully. I will see if I can recreate the leak but it seems like its only in spring. I really doubt that this wall is moving because the crack is so fine. Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.