[Windowman123]

Greetings!

Wondering if some users could shed some light on a couple of questions......

Background
Our house is a typical ranch style house with a full basement. The house was built in 1998 and we purchased it from the original owner in 2010. 3 years ago we added an addition off the back of the house, and of course it kind of snowballed into more!

We are now working on the main part of the house as we are going to move the kitchen to a different area and also install hardwood floors. Due to the hardwood floors, we are replacing all of the sub floor with 3/4" plywood.

Now that the carpet and ceramic tile is all removed and the sub floor is cut loose, I just now noticed that the floors slope to the center of the house (towards the center beam). I don't know how i missed this, but i did!!
The slope is approx. 3/4" over 12 ft. The slope is pretty equal on both sides.
Wondering if this is serious, did the house settle, or was it built like that? We have absolutely no cracks in any drywall, the ceramic tile was not cracked and none of the doors show any signs of the house settling...no binding, reveals all good, etc. What's kind of weird is that all of the exterior walls are nice and plumb, but the 2 interior walls in the middle of the house, which are close to the center beam are out of plumb quite a bit. Doesn't really make sense. If the house settled over time, the doors should definitely show signs of the settling.

I have talked with 2 architects and a structural engineer and all of them figure that either the house settled during construction (lots of clay here)or it was built this way. All felt that if it was serious, we would have cracks, doors off/binding, etc. As a note, none have visited the house

The floor joists are 2x10's 16" o.c and run to a main/center supports beam that is a triple 2x10. The center beam is supported underneath with steel adjustable posts along with some wood support posts, depending on location of the posts.

In order to fix the floors and/or center beam, I know i COULD jack everything up from the basement, but it is entirely finished. I can see drywall cracking all over (basement)and maybe walls even lifting(?).

Also, we are looking at moving our kitchen which would be over part of the area with the sloped floor. How much is this going to affect the floor/load?
Would stiffening the floor joists help?

I have added some drawings to help........

My questions are:
1. Moving the kitchen - Can I stiffen the 2 x 10's with either a 2 x 6 or micro lam? Glue and screw? How about blocking the ends on the sill plate and center beam.......help at all? I cannot go back in with 2 x 10's due to wiring running through the floor joists.

2. Center beam - is it strong enough? My other concern is that in the basement, there is a span of 13 feet between posts/columns. This shown with the Orange squares in the drawing. Is this span o.k.? I cannot seem to find much on this, just span tables for joists.
Should I add a post in the center of the 13 foot span? Replace the wood supports with steel posts?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[Nealtw]

Greetings!

Wondering if some users could shed some light on a couple of questions......

Background
Our house is a typical ranch style house with a full basement. The house was built in 1998 and we purchased it from the original owner in 2010. 3 years ago we added an addition off the back of the house, and of course it kind of snowballed into more!

We are now working on the main part of the house as we are going to move the kitchen to a different area and also install hardwood floors. Due to the hardwood floors, we are replacing all of the sub floor with 3/4" plywood.

Now that the carpet and ceramic tile is all removed and the sub floor is cut loose, I just now noticed that the floors slope to the center of the house (towards the center beam). I don't know how i missed this, but i did!!
The slope is approx. 3/4" over 12 ft. The slope is pretty equal on both sides.
Wondering if this is serious, did the house settle, or was it built like that? We have absolutely no cracks in any drywall, the ceramic tile was not cracked and none of the doors show any signs of the house settling...no binding, reveals all good, etc. What's kind of weird is that all of the exterior walls are nice and plumb, but the 2 interior walls in the middle of the house, which are close to the center beam are out of plumb quite a bit. Doesn't really make sense. If the house settled over time, the doors should definitely show signs of the settling.

I have talked with 2 architects and a structural engineer and all of them figure that either the house settled during construction (lots of clay here)or it was built this way. All felt that if it was serious, we would have cracks, doors off/binding, etc. As a note, none have visited the house

The floor joists are 2x10's 16" o.c and run to a main/center supports beam that is a triple 2x10. The center beam is supported underneath with steel adjustable posts along with some wood support posts, depending on location of the posts.

In order to fix the floors and/or center beam, I know i COULD jack everything up from the basement, but it is entirely finished. I can see drywall cracking all over (basement)and maybe walls even lifting(?).

Also, we are looking at moving our kitchen which would be over part of the area with the sloped floor. How much is this going to affect the floor/load?
Would stiffening the floor joists help?

I have added some drawings to help........

My questions are:
1. Moving the kitchen - Can I stiffen the 2 x 10's with either a 2 x 6 or micro lam? Glue and screw? How about blocking the ends on the sill plate and center beam.......help at all? I cannot go back in with 2 x 10's due to wiring running through the floor joists.

2. Center beam - is it strong enough? My other concern is that in the basement, there is a span of 13 feet between posts/columns. This shown with the Orange squares in the drawing. Is this span o.k.? I cannot seem to find much on this, just span tables for joists.
Should I add a post in the center of the 13 foot span? Replace the wood supports with steel posts?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!!

never mind I see it now.


A friend built a house in 2000 and it started sinking in one corner shortly after he moved in. aft 10 years most of the house sloped to the corner which was down 3 1/2 inches.

2013 it had not moved for three years so we figured that was as far as it would go, we jacked it up to within 1/2 every where with very little drywall cracking.

 

[Msradell]

As Neal stated it's quite possible you can jack it up without even experiencing any drywall cracking. The trick is to do it slowly over period of time so things can adjust slowly. For the amount of slope you have it's more a matter of is that something you want to do because you would notice it forever or is it really a problem and that something you have to decide for yourself. I doubt moving the kitchen will have much influence on this issue.

 

[HotRodx10]

It doesn't appear that the 2x10 joists are the issue, but the foundation for the post(s) supporting the center beam was inadequate. I recommend installing footers, or bigger footers for new posts under the center beam, then jacking the center beam (slowly, as Msradell recommended). Otherwise, it could continue to sink.


I also recommend checking if the center beam is low at other locations along its length. Much easier and better to correct inadequate bearing capacity and raise it all at the same time, if it needs it.


It appears that most of your walls don't cross that centerline, so you may not see much cracking of drywall, etc., either existing or when correcting the center beam, since it's created more of a 'bend' or 'kink' than a sag, where the 2 sides each remain more or less 'square' on their own, but are angled to each other. A wall (or cabinets, etc.) that cross the center may have problems, though.

 

[Windowman123]

Thanks for input, i really appreciate it!

Few more questions if you don't mind.

If i were to jack up the center of the house, what size jack would be sufficient? 5 ton, 10 ton? Looking at using some screw jacks.

As far as some new one piece adjustable support posts, what load range would one need for the posts? I am looking at the Akron Mono posts which are acceptable for permanent posts.

My one concern is still the 13 foot unsupported span between the 2 posts...........I think that span may be a little excessive based on what i could find online. The biggest allowable span that i was able to find was approx. 10 feet. Some said as low as 9 feet.
But, since i am not really familiar with loads/spans, etc. on these center beams, I really don't know. Anyone have a good source to find what the maximum allowable span would be? Like I said, we are moving our kitchen above this area and also adding a second wall between the master bed and kitchen for noise. Still worry about the weight.

I could add another post in the 13 ft. span if needed, but hate to get into more than that unless absolutely needed. But, if I have to, i have to. My entire basement is finished.......and to make matter worse, all the walls and ceiling are textured.

I'm thinking now that the former owner moved the 2 supports posts to open up the living area down there. I also found that the 1st support post in from the foundation wall was cut out and replaced with a small 1 pc. wood post that is about 4x4 to make way for some plumbing!! The previous owner may have cut the post...not sure. I know the previous owner and could definitely see him doing this.

 

[Bondo]

If i were to jack up the center of the house, what size jack would be sufficient? 5 ton, 10 ton? Looking at using some screw jacks.

Ayuh,..... I've jacked oodles of houses with 12 ton hyd. bottle jacks,.....

Add another support under the main beam, when ya get it up level,.....

 

[Nealtw]

Thanks for input, i really appreciate it!

Few more questions if you don't mind.

If i were to jack up the center of the house, what size jack would be sufficient? 5 ton, 10 ton? Looking at using some screw jacks.

As far as some new one piece adjustable support posts, what load range would one need for the posts? I am looking at the Akron Mono posts which are acceptable for permanent posts.

My one concern is still the 13 foot unsupported span between the 2 posts...........I think that span may be a little excessive based on what i could find online. The biggest allowable span that i was able to find was approx. 10 feet. Some said as low as 9 feet.
But, since i am not really familiar with loads/spans, etc. on these center beams, I really don't know. Anyone have a good source to find what the maximum allowable span would be? Like I said, we are moving our kitchen above this area and also adding a second wall between the master bed and kitchen for noise. Still worry about the weight.

I could add another post in the 13 ft. span if needed, but hate to get into more than that unless absolutely needed. But, if I have to, i have to. My entire basement is finished.......and to make matter worse, all the walls and ceiling are textured.

I'm thinking now that the former owner moved the 2 supports posts to open up the living area down there. I also found that the 1st support post in from the foundation wall was cut out and replaced with a small 1 pc. wood post that is about 4x4 to make way for some plumbing!! The previous owner may have cut the post...not sure. I know the previous owner and could definitely see him doing this.

Start with a laser under the house so you first find if the perimeter subfloor is level everywhere.

Then you turn your attention to the pier support. You will need two jacks for them one on each side so you don't stress the beam.
Big jacks can break stuff, I would start with 2 12 ton hydraulic jacks.
No more than 1/4" lift per day.
When you have the subfloor around the pier level with the out side then you check the beams to see if they need lifting in he center.

When you are happy with the piers and the beams you start looking at the floor joists and their sags

You will have learned much by then.



If you attach a 2x4 down from a joist in a corner, so you can set a laser lower than the beams. You would be able to go anywhere and measure up from the red line to the subfloor.

 

[sixeightten]

I am gonna vote for that beam being low during framing. A lot of production homes are framed by folks in a real big hurry.

 

[Windowman123]

That has crossed my mind.....beam being low during framing!
If it was done that way, I wonder how that's going to affect trying to level everything out, or at least get it somewhat close?

 

[Nealtw]

That has crossed my mind.....beam being low during framing!
If it was done that way, I wonder how that's going to affect trying to level everything out, or at least get it somewhat close?

The footing for the piers were o small or on poor soil. Usually they have sank as far as they need too and will be fine when you re level them.