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Discussion Starter #1
Here in my plan, I want to 4' build a fence 45' long that separates my grass yard form my grave driveway, that area is perfectly level so that is simple.

My idea is this, pour a 18"x45'x4"+ concrete strip and then attach Simpson post bases (FPBB44) every 6'-8' down the center of the strip. I would run (2) continuous rebar the length of the strip to reduce any stress on it. What this will do is allow me to have an edging/boarder at the grass as well as a simple way to keep grass and such off the fence. If that makes sense at all.

So I was quoted an average of $1200 for this project which was a bit out of my price range for the concrete alone, so I decided to try it myself. I have already dug the areas out and my plan was to pour directly onto the native soils. Also in my area they have "U-Cart Concrete" basically its a 1yd. trailer of pre-mixed concrete.

My questions are this:
1) Do I need to use a release agent on the forms (I planned on just using 2x4s)
2) The only concrete tools I own is an metal edger and a metal rectangle trowel, do I need anything else to get decent results? Do I need to get a "float" or can I just screed and smooth with the trowel and then broom finish.
3) Do I need to do relief cuts in this slab? And if so, how often?
 

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Makes no since to me in more ways then one.
"Here in my plan, I want to 4' build a fence 45' long"
A big waste of concrete in my option and would have very little side load strength.
Far better to just dig holes and set the post in concrete.
Not even sure how you would use just 2 X 4's to build a fence. Going to need at least 4 X 4's for the post.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
This is my idea. I have seen it done before, and the fence was plenty strong, with the rebar in there wouldnt you have to tip the entire 18"x45'x4'+ thick slab?



If I embed posts I would then turn around and pour a 18"x 45'x4"+ slab around them so I get my grass and gravel borders that I want. And if I do that how easy would it be to remove a post if it became damaged.
 

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Too Short? Cut it Again!
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Building department is alright with you doing this?

Have you looked at something like the Border Magic system? You could put the mow strip side of it toward the lawn. Fill the high side with your gravel.

Meanwhile you could anchor your posts and just build the fence to clear the level of the gravel?

Border Magic (and competitors) is basically a curb forming system scaled down for landscape applications. It can follow any grade or shape. You can color the concrete and stamp it with a variety of patterns.


Oh well. If you can and want to go with your approach, why 18" wide? Seems like an awful lot of extra concrete.
 

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Border Magic (and competitors) is basically a curb forming system scaled down for landscape applications. It can follow any grade or shape. You can color the concrete and stamp it with a variety of patterns.
The OP thought that $1200 was too expensive to do what he is proposing. To do what you are proposing with Border Magic or one of the competitors would cost even more.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
What I was proposing will cost me $110 as a DIY project, My project will take one yard of concrete and that is the cost me to get 1.25 yards. Using one yard of concrete doesnt sound like a huge waste to me, if I was using several yards for a project like this I could see that mindset.

This is a 48" tall fence attached to the concrete, more to keep the dogs in the yard more than anything else.

Do you guys really think there is a chance that the wind can tip this over if there is rebar in the concrete?
 

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K&B Designer
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Do you have a full ton pickup with REALLY good brakes to be able to cart that U Cart? Do you realize how heavy that is? And that it waits not for you to be ready for it? If you can't get it out of the hopper and into where it wants to be in time, you've just bought a heck of a lot more expensive paperweight than $1200.

I have a F350, and it's heavy enough that it challenged it's ability to tow because the darn thing doesn't have any electric brakes! That means that essentially, your vehicle will need to be able to stop all of that weight with it's brakes. Can you say road safety hazard?

Not to mention that $1200 is a bargain for the work you asked to be performed. However, the design as a whole needs to go back to the drawing board.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Not to mention that $1200 is a bargain for the work you asked to be performed. However, the design as a whole needs to go back to the drawing board.
Any input then on what needs to be done? I dont care if $1200 is a good deal or not, if I can do it myself and save money I am going to, that is the point of a DIY forum haha :D

As for the trailers, they have brakes in my area, as well as mini mixers so time and hauling is not an issue....

The carts at the place I am going to go to look like this:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I just sent an email off to Simpson Strong Tie, since they make the brackets maybe they have some input for me.

I used these brackets to install a handrail around my raised concrete patio and they worked great, they dont budge at all, but then again its attached to a 12x10 slab..

If you are not familiar with the brackets I am talking about, it is these:
 

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There will certainly be a significant potential for the entire fence to tip over with that small of a foundation. You should at least dig some "post holes" a couple of feet deep at regular intervals and pour them monolithic with your surface slab. Ideally you could even tie the rebar into a couple of pieces that went down into the holes.
 

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I'm not sure about the fence tipping over, but regarding the concrete, I would mix that much in a wheelbarrow with a hoe.

A couple of weekends past, I got my 5 year old daughter out to help me and I had 30 sacks of kwikrete and 1 sack of portland. I had 4 4' sonatubes to fill. The portland was left over from another job.

My daughter was in charge of putting 7 quarts in the wheelbarrow for every 3 sacks of kwikrete. It called for 6, but I put in an extra to allow for the extra portland I was throwing in, and my daughter might not fill up the cup completely.

Anyway, this took about 2 hours, so I figure you can mix a yard in 6 hours. The secret is to use a hoe and do it in the shade.

I told my daughter when she was done that she was a good partner, and she said, "Look who's talking." I asked her what that meant, and she said she didn't know, but it was just something she learned.
 

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At a minimum, the entire footer would need to be below frost depth to avoid frost heave. In western WA, that is between 12" and 18" inches deep. (3x your planned depth.) Consult with your local codes office when you pull your permit for the fence and they will tell you how deep the footers must go. Constructing this fence without the permits and approval of your local office means wasted money and time when they come and make you tear it down. Better to find out on the front end what they require.
 

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JOATMON
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Do you have a full ton pickup with REALLY good brakes to be able to cart that U Cart? Do you realize how heavy that is? And that it waits not for you to be ready for it? If you can't get it out of the hopper and into where it wants to be in time, you've just bought a heck of a lot more expensive paperweight than $1200.

I have a F350, and it's heavy enough that it challenged it's ability to tow because the darn thing doesn't have any electric brakes! That means that essentially, your vehicle will need to be able to stop all of that weight with it's brakes. Can you say road safety hazard?

Not to mention that $1200 is a bargain for the work you asked to be performed. However, the design as a whole needs to go back to the drawing board.
I've towed one of those 1 yard totes with a 1/2 ton PU with no problems....of course I didn't get on the fwy or get into any drag racing contests...

Oh, and the tote has built in brakes...in fact, I will most likely be using one of those myself in a week or so....I think I'll tow it behind my jeep this time.

At a minimum, the entire footer would need to be below frost depth to avoid frost heave. In western WA, that is between 12" and 18" inches deep. (3x your planned depth.) Consult with your local codes office when you pull your permit for the fence and they will tell you how deep the footers must go. Constructing this fence without the permits and approval of your local office means wasted money and time when they come and make you tear it down. Better to find out on the front end what they require.
Footer? Frost heave? In Tacoma WA? Do you work for the Govt or something? Talk about taking a simple project and making it overkill.....

I agree about checking on permits....but I'm willing to bet that he won't need one....I know I wouldn't need it here in California....

My only suggestion to the OP would be to maybe put in a bit more rebar...like some 16" pieces across your two lengths....especially around the post bases....that will give the concrete the support it needs for those bases...
 

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I've rented a cement mixer for small jobs like that---then the concrete can be mixed right where I need it----however, that hopper sounds like a time saver.
 

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That little hopper looks like a real handy thing. Wish they were available here.
I think your plan is ok, but I do see potential for wind tipping the whole assembly over, so the suggestion of putting some "footers" down, by using a polehole digger, near the ends and at 8-10' intervals, with some rebar down the holes is a good idea.
You will want some control joints, a pour that long will crack somewhere, so scoring it every 10' or so will give it a place to crack that isn't as visible as a random crack.
If you got fiber reinforced concrete, you could skip the rebar.
You need to screed it, float it, let it bleed, then finish trowel and edge. Keep it covered and damp for a couple days for best strength.
Don't add too much water! It's tempting to juice it up to make it flow, but that will result in very weak and cracked concrete. The strongest concrete has only enough water to complete the hydration reaction, and no more.
Do you plan to set the bolts for the brackets in the wet mud, or drill them in later?
 

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The fiber in the concrete is just for micro-cracking and does little for the continuity that is need under a long fence. A little rebar (1 or 2) in a footing will hold everything together and the fence will look better.

I assume it is a "gravel driveway" and not a "grave driveway".

Dick
 

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If it were me, I'd do the strip just like you planned, with a few post holes, and I'd even pound a couple pieces of 24" rebar into the ground and tie your horizontal rebar into them.

As far as your forms, just spray some WD40 on them to get them to break cleanly.

I'd also ask the u-cart place if they can put some retarder in the concrete. It'll give you some extra time on your first pour.
 

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JOATMON
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Actually, those hoppers come in two flavors....the one in the pic above...you get one of those when your going to have an extended pour time....

The other flavor is just a rectangular tube with a hand hyd lift....the whole thing looks like a miniature dump truck....I prefer that one for what I do....

They mix up the concrete at the business....the guy can control the slop and strength right there as he mixes it and dumps it into the tote.....
 

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In my experience, I understand that water (sloppier mix) can be added upon request when delivered, but anything that affects the chemistry of the mix is the responsibility of the concrete purchaser.

After that, the placement, finishing and curing of the concrete is the responsibility of the concrete purchaser.

Dick
 
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