[Jamiesc]

Need your advice for a bee entrance and want to validate before getting quotes

House needs 300 amps, big house with all electric heating and farm needs 200-300 amps.

Would you go 600 amps 120/240 or 600 volt and step down to 120/240? Some electric motors but can run kn both voltages. If 600 how many amps would be needed? From monthly cost is one cheaper?

Thank you

 

[Speedy Petey]

Where are you that you have 600V available?

 

[Jamiesc]

Yes. Right in front

 

[Speedy Petey]

Yes. Right in front

I don't get it.

 

[Jamiesc]

Sorry misread question, in quebec canada and by luck there is a tri-phase 14,400 line in front of our land to supply the upsteam town and our power supplier offers 3phase 600 volt service

 

[Arrow3030]

Does farm equipment really come in 600 volts? Anything over 480 and I'm out of my comfort zone but I'd like to see where this thread goes for my own edification. You might qualify for two services, agricultural and residential which I believe would be in your favor.

 

[jbfan]

Does farm equipment really come in 600 volts? Anything over 480 and I'm out of my comfort zone but I'd like to see where this thread goes for my own edification. You might qualify for two services, agricultural and residential which I believe would be in your favor.

I used to work in a cotton mill that had 600 volts.

That's where I learned to be an electrician, so you can imagine how much trouble I had learning about 480/277.:biggrin2:

 

[AllanJ]

What is the distance between the two buildings or barns or stables or apiaries needing power that are furthest apart.

You will want to figure out the number of watts needed at each location. If you have a portable machine that will be used at more than one location, also figure out the watts including that machine for each of those locations to better figure out the size of the wiring from the pole transformer to that location. For the main house you could just take 300 amps as you stated.

The total service size will of course be smaller than the sum of the power requirements for each location since not everything will be running at once.

You may be able to put one pole on the property (probably midway between the two buildings furthest apart) to mount the pole transformer and then string 120/240 volt lines to each location needing power.

Or two poles, one for the 600 volt (or 277/480 volt) transformer and one for the 120/240 volt transformer.

Six hundred volts is a magic number above which there are many different rules in the NEC (and probably also the CEC).

The higher the voltage, the fewer the amps and the thinner the wires needed for that span for a given number of watts. If you take only 600V (or only 277/480V) from the power company then you will need additional transformers at each location to get 120/240V.

 

[joed]

600/347 volts the common industrial voltage supplied in Canada. The USA equivalent would be a 480/277 volt supply.

 

[micromind]

Assuming the farm and house are in different locations, I would install a 200 amp 277/480 3Ø service at either the farm or the house. Likely the farm because it would have more motors than the house. If 277/480 is not available, then use 347/600 3Ø.

Then, I would install a 75 KVA 3Ø transformer with a 120/208 secondary at each location. This will give 208 amps per phase. This is roughly the same amount of power as a 300 amp 120/240 single phase, because you have 3 hots rather than 2.

A few thoughts;

1) Anything over 200 amps gets expensive. Especially 480 or 600 volts 3Ø.

2) 600 volt breakers are more $$$ than 480.

3) Utilities are different, but around here any 600 amp or higher service is assessed a demand charge. It runs about $10 per KW of peak demand. A 10 KW load will be charged the normal KWhr rate (10¢ per KWhr around here) plus $100 per month for the demand. A 200 amp 480 service is not charged a demand fee.

3) Wire from the 480 (or 600) panel to the transformers is pretty small compared to single phase.

On the downside, the 2 transformers will use roughly 200 KWhr per month regardless of load though this usage varies a lot with different types of transformers.

Rob

 

[Arrow3030]

600/347 volts the common industrial voltage supplied in Canada. The USA equivalent would be a 480/277 volt supply.

Is 347 common for lighting commercial? Is there any 277/480? I'm guessing that's a secondary wye center tapped?
I think the OP might want to get a total VA and do a spreadsheet on what is residential, industrial and what is either. Or, hire an engineer.

 

[AllanJ]

I would say that 277/480 or 347/600 should be considered only if:

1. Distances about the farm are such that fewer on-premises utility supplied pole transformers would be needed compared with 120/240 or 120/208 volts.

Or,

2. You have a lot of equipment that takes more than 240 volts and you can get the exact voltage needed for the equipment from the power company.

Or,

3. Demand charges would be less compared with all 120/240 and/or 120/208 volt supply.

A separately metered service for the house should reduce or eliminate the need for demand metering.

When analyzing the alternatives involving stepping down from 480 or 600 volts, keep in mind that transformers are not 100% erfficient and have an "idling" aka "parasitic" current draw even when there is no load.

... cotton mill that had 600 volts ...

AC or DC? Some mills and factories dating back to the early 20'th century used 600 volts DC supplied by a power plant that also supplied trolley car systems.

 

[jbfan]

AllanJ, it was AC.

 

[joed]

Is 347 common for lighting commercial?

Yes.

Is there any 277/480?

There might be but I am not that experienced. My limited knowledge is the four office buildings we had. They were all 600/347. I know about the 480 because all the UPS units we would order and maintain usually came from US with 480 and needed input and/or output transformers to convert to our 600 volts.

This is definitely not DIY. Especially in Quebec. ALL work is required to be done by licensed electricians in Quebec, even in your own home.