[cybex210]

Hi I was hoping someone could help me figure out how I need to wire this small garage. I posted a hand drawing on my site of where they want the receptacles and lights. CLICK HERE FOR DRAWING

Its a total of 7 receptacles (1 outdoor 5 indoor and 1 240v-20a)

And three lights (1 indoor and 2 outdoor)

and a switch for each light next to the door.

Here is the link to the layout of the garage where they want the lights. CLICK HERE FOR DRAWING

I know I must have left out alot of info in order for you to help me, but Im here and anything else you need to know I am happy to respond very quickly with it.

****SO FAR...we havent connected any wires yet just laying in the rough wiring at this point. But from an outdoor subpanel I Placed a 30amp dipole breaker and ran nm 10-2 cable to the area of the tiny service panel in the garage.

So do I plug both the black and white wires to the 30 amp breaker mark the white as hot and plug the other end into a 60 amp main breaker. And my other question is, how do I wire the outdoor receptacels and lights..do I conecct them to a gfci receptacle in the a circuit. And how many receptacles can I wire on a single circuit.

Any feedback, links, pictures, videos, anything really to help me finish project, Its really important to me. Thanks in Advanced!

 

[Jim Port]

You need a 4 wire feeder to the subpanel.

 

[cybex210]

Wire feeder...like a cable with 2 or 3 conductors + ground ?

 

[fuzzball03]

Wire feeder...like a cable with 2 or 3 conductors + ground ?

You may take a look at this:
http://www.electrical-online.com/subpanel-installation/

You mentioned "they wanted" - is this for a friend?
If you dont feel comfortable doing any of this, I'd highly suggest you think about other options beyond DIY.

Hope that helps!

 

[McSteve]

You need a 4 wire feeder to the subpanel.

Fixed that for ya, I think

You need four wires to feed your subpanel, two hots from your 30A double-pole breaker, a neutral, and a ground.

 

[cybex210]

The subpanel outside the house is wired powered and has additional slots for more breakers. Our main panel inside has 2 120v feeders @200amps total coming in and outside on the opposite side of the wall is the already installed and powered panel with a few extra breaker ports available....I need to run some circuits in the garage nearby from this...hope this helps you help me get this done. Its for my elderly parents...they all the cable and have had people start and never finish the job. With no more money and me unemployed I want to this it them. I've always been a do it yourselfer so any more help would be immensely appreciated.

Thank you so much for the link as well...that's a great article.

 

[fuzzball03]

The subpanel outside the house is wired powered and has additional slots for more breakers. Our main panel inside has 2 120v feeders @200amps total coming in and outside on the opposite side of the wall is the already installed and powered panel with a few extra breaker ports available....I need to run some circuits in the garage nearby from this...hope this helps you help me get this done. Its for my elderly parents...they all the cable and have had people start and never finish the job. With no more money and me unemployed I want to this it them. I've always been a do it yourselfer so any more help would be immensely appreciated.

Thank you so much for the link as well...that's a great article.

I'm having trouble understanding exactly where each panel is(or going to be), and which one is the main feed to the house.

If you already have a panel inside the garage, but it's full - you may be able to use a tandem breaker. It's takes up "one slot" but allows you to feed two circuits.

 

[cybex210]

Fixed that for ya, I think

You need four wires to feed your subpanel, two hots from your 30A double-pole breaker, a neutral, and a ground.

I see...thanks for that mcsteve and Jim. So all that 10-2 I have I can't use that to run power to the shed I need 10-4 (10gauge 4 wires)....here's a long shot but...can I double up and use the one I have. Its has a black white and bare copper wire?

 

[cybex210]

I'm having trouble understanding exactly where each panel is(or going to be), and which one is the main feed to the house.

If you already have a panel inside the garage, but it's full - you may be able to use a tandem breaker. It's takes up "one slot" but allows you to feed two circuits.

@ fuzzball03...There was a shed/garage built behind the house with no electricity at all. The house itself has a breaker box inside and a breaker outside on the other side of the wall outside the house. I was wanting to run power to the garage from that outdoor breaker box because it has several unused breakers.

We salvaged or was recently given another tiny breaker box(which i was assuming i would need to put in the garage or i may not) to distribute power to the circuits im going to put in there.

I have 250 ft of 10-2 and 250 ft of 12-2 nm cable 600v...I just took a few pictures Ill figure out how to upload them

 

[cybex210]

Pictures

Can I provide anything else for you guys to help me?
The 1st pic is from inside the garage...this was given to us...Figure i would need to to distribute the power to the circuits in the garage.
The 2nd is the already working breaker box on the outside of the house.
the 3rd is just a close up of the 2nd

 

[fuzzball03]

So the garage is not detached? Burying cable brings on a whole new set of problems.

It looks like the small panel has room for 6 breakers, is that right?
You'll need/should use a 2-pole breaker to feed the new panel(this way it will feed both phases, and allow you to turn off all power in that panel from the garage).

You dont need 10-4, but rather 10-3 with 3 conductors, and one ground. You'll need both phases in order to bring 240v to the garage, this is why you need the 10-3.
Could you use two 10-2's? You sure could. But I'm unsure if any codes are violated in doing this.

 

[McSteve]

Could you use two 10-2's? You sure could. But I'm unsure if any codes are violated in doing this.

NEC 300.3(B): (Paraphrased) All conductors of a circuit must be contained within the same raceway or cable assembly.

So, no. Can't run two 10-2 in place of a 10-3. Also, that 10-2 looks like standard NM-B; you can't run that stuff outside at all, and you definitely can't bury it.

 

[Jim Port]

You also cannot parallel conductors that small.

 

[cybex210]

Its obvious you guys know your stuff. Thank you fuzzball Jim and mcsteve...for clarifying so many things for me and taking time to help.

About the cable...given what u said about burying it...could i run it inside some underground grade pvc pipe from the house to the garage?

And a question about neutral and ground...instead of running the neutral and ground from the garage back to the outdoor subpanel on the house can I put a pole 8 ft down next the garage and run the neutral an ground from the bus bars in the small breaker box in the garage to that outside the house?

I

 

[cybex210]

Also @ Jim what does it mean that I cannot parrallel conductors that small? You mean run those two cables along the same path so closely together?

 

[jbfan]

No and no!

It must be uf rated cable, or needs to be 4 induvidual conductors in pipe.

 

[Jim Port]

Also @ Jim what does it mean that I cannot parrallel conductors that small? You mean run those two cables along the same path so closely together?

I thought you were asking if you could run two smaller cables to equal a larger size cable. For example only, run 2 #10's instead of something like a #6.

If you install a subpanel at a detached building you will need a grounding system, like 2 8' rods.

The ability to run a 3 wire feeder to an outbuilding and re-bond the neutral and ground has been removed from the Code. Hence the need for 4 conductors.

 

[powerfactor]

you've got the panel pretty well surrounded by 2x4s, so how will you get the wires into it?

 

[BigGuy01]

I've noticed no ones mentioned it so I will.

NEC 210.8, states that all Electrical Recepticles in a Garage, Kitchen Counter, Bathroom, and outdoors must be GFCI protected.

Your building code may allow just having one GFCI Outlet, but having the rest run on the same circuit as the GFCI for a Garage, provided you label each recepticle with a sticker that states "GFCI Protected", OR, you may be locked in at requiring all outlets you install to be GFCI. You need to speak with your local cities commissioner office or city hall, and determine which is which, and what needs to happen.

Do not attempt to install unprotected recepticles in a garage.

GFCI Recepticles are a bit more expensive than regular outlets.

So it is important you figure out which applies to you.

Just putting that out there.