[jowalern]

Hello everyone! This looks like a great organization. Hopefully somewhere down the line I will be able to help others. Right now I am looking for help on my wiring. Bought house 3+ years ago. It is over 125 years old and in good shape. The electric is crazy though. I have a 200 amp service but the entire first floor and the detached garage are all on the same 30 amp breaker for all lights and outlets. Right now I am looking for info on how to put a 60 amp sub panel in the garage, which will be used as a workshop for gardening and woodwork. Want to bring wire from the main panel by attaching it to the side of house and bring into the garage overhead. Many questions.
1. Is #6 wire ok to use between panels? About a 60 foot run.
2. What size PVC pipe should I use as a conduit for the wire?
2a. Do I need to use a conduit if the right type of wire is used?
3. What type of grounding can I use? Two eight foot poles driven into the ground about six feet away from each other may be impossible because of hard clay ground AND boulders.

I am sure that I will have many other questions as project is developed. I appreciate any help and support. By the way, I will be checking, but I do not believe that there are any building inspectors in the city where I live, although I do want to do everything above electrical codes.

 

[Windows on Wash]

Welcome to the forums. Post this over in the electrical forum if you haven't already.

 

[rjniles]

If you must run the cable to the garage overhead, I would run 4/4/4/6 aluminum SER cable. On the span to the garage run a stainless steel messenger cable and secure the SER to the messenger with cable ties.

You do need the 2 ground rods at the garage.

 

[roughneck]

Welcome to the site.
As said above post in the electrical section for an answer to your question.

 

[joed]

Moved to electrical.

Add your location to your profile.
The proper answer to some questions is different depending on where you live.

 

[Wiredindallas]

As to driving the ground rods, it is legal to dig down as deep as possible , then trench across to bury the remaining length of the rod. Obviously you have to bend the rod at 90 degrees.

 

[Jim Port]

You can also just dig a trench and lay the rods horizontal. I forget the depth, but something like 30 inches.

 

[Oso954]

An overhead electrical line between buildings is a PITA unless it is a couple of stories high.

I'd rent a trencher and put it underground.

 

[Oldmaster]

I'd definitely go underground if possible. If you must go overhead use quadplex overhead.

 

[joed]

Here we can use a ground plate. Dig a hole three feet deep and bury it.

 

[rjniles]

I'd definitely go underground if possible. If you must go overhead use quadplex overhead.

I did not recommend using quadplaex because he will have to install junction boxes on the house and garage to transition from the quadplex to another wiring method. With SER he can run a single wiring method from panel to panel

 

[Oldmaster]

No junction boxes. Service heads and feeder drops. Clean and NEC compliant. SER on a messenger is going to be problematic. Covering gets brittle and with the wind moving it, it fails. Probably not an approved method.

 

[seharper]

The electric is crazy though. I have a 200 amp service but the entire first floor and the detached garage are all on the same 30 amp breaker for all lights and outlets.

Far more likely you have a 30A breaker feeding a subpanel. The subpanel is likely an ancient fuse block. It would be surprising if they just put a bunch of lights and receps straight off a 30A breaker; not least it's illegal!

Want to bring wire from the main panel by attaching it to the side of house and bring into the garage overhead.

You'll need conduit going up to weatherheads on both ends. You don't use PVC conduit for weatherheads, you use Rigid because it needs to be strong as heck to handle the side load. The weatherheads must avoid certain positions (not near windows, balconies, access points like barn loading hoists, etc.) They must be a certain height above ground and a higher height above vehicle pathways. They need a carrier wire with appropriate anchoring at both ends. The carrier can carry safety ground.

Safety ground must be wired; the mandatory ground rods at the garage are for lightning and ESD, not emergency current return.


If you want to go underground, you can use direct burial rated cable in a trench lined with sand (no rocks getting near cable) at a depth of 24" + cable width. Or you can use PVC pipe at a burial depth of 18"+pipe width (i.e. 18" of cover). Or you can use Rigid conduit at a burial depth of 6" + pipe width (12" under vehicle pathways). Your call.

Rigid is hella expensive, and requires a few trips to the COVID-19 store - I mean the hardware store - to do pipe threading to length. But you can trench it with a garden trowel.

For grounding rods, you must consult your local authority. They are well aware of local soil conditions and will tell you what you need. Far and away the best kind of ground is an UFER, which ties into the reinforcing rod in the slab. However that requires forethought at time of pour.

I do not believe that there are any building inspectors in the city where I live, although I do want to do everything above electrical codes.

You'll find out when you try to pull the permit.

 

[Oldmaster]

Actually you can use PVC for the feeders. Messenger attaches to point of attachment on building. Typically a strike knob or bracket. The weather heads purpose is to prevent water from entering the cable. Should be no strain on the weather heads.

 

[Jim Port]

Under grounds go in the footing, not the slab.

 

[rjniles]

Under grounds go in the footing, not the slab.

I am sure Jim means UFER but auto correct struck again.