[David09022]

My home was built in 1970. I’m switching out bathroom outlets to GFCI. My master bath is divided by a swinging door into two sides. The first side has one sink and two outlets. Both outlets have four wires (series circuit), two white, two black and a ground. The other half of the bathroom has a toilet and shower , one sink and one outlet. This outlet has two wires, one black, one white and a ground. I put in three GFCI’s but only 2 work. When I walk into the first side the light comes on and the first GFCI works but the second one doesn’t. It shows a red light and won’t reset. When I try to turn one the light on the other side of the bathroom it doesn’t come on but the red light on the GFCI, that doesn’t work,turns on and off. So the light on the second side of the bathroom is controlled by the outlet in the middle that doesn’t work. Any ideas?


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[David09022]

I figured it out.


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[seharper]

If you're going to put in a GFCI receptacle everywhere you want GFCI protection, then do not use the LOAD lines. Use LINE only.

Only use LOAD when you specifically want to give GFCI protection to downline locations. It should never be used otherwise.

Most GFCI receps will accommodate 2 wires under each LINE screw.

 

[David09022]

Really? Ok, that’s the kind of thing I need to know. Yeah, my 1970 house has weird wiring that I don’t want to figure out. Should I go back and rewire all the others for line only? Do I just put a cap on the black load (hot) wire and another cap on the other line (white)wire?


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[MTN REMODEL LLC]

Really? Ok, that’s the kind of thing I need to know. Yeah, my 1970 house has weird wiring that I don’t want to figure out. Should I go back and rewire all the others for line only? Do I just put a cap on the black load (hot) wire and another cap on the other line (white)wire?


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Not trying to be an AH.....but when playing with electrical, it's kind of very important to "figure out".

You can end up with something seemingly working fine, but still very dangerous under different conditions.

There is nothing wrong with individually protected GFI receps (assuming wired correctly) or downstream receps GFI protected by one upstream.

Not sure what you mean about capping a bl;ack and white wire.

Try and make sure you do know what you're doing, or get a knowledgeable friend or electrician to assist....HONEST

 

[chetwisner]

My home was built in 1970. I’m switching out bathroom outlets to GFCI. My master bath is divided by a swinging door into two sides. The first side has one sink and two outlets. Both outlets have four wires (series circuit), two white, two black and a ground.

The other half of the bathroom has a toilet and shower , one sink and one outlet. This outlet has two wires, one black, one white and a ground. I put in three GFCI’s but only 2 work. When I walk into the first side the light comes on and the first GFCI works but the second one doesn’t. It shows a red light and won’t reset. When I try to turn one the light on the other side of the bathroom it doesn’t come on but the red light on the GFCI, that doesn’t work,turns on and off. So the light on the second side of the bathroom is controlled by the outlet in the middle that doesn’t work. Any ideas?


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It sounds to me like the first receptacle (in his "first side"), call it "A" should be a GFCI with the source connected to the LINE side, and the other two wires (B & W) feeding the next receptacle, call it "B" from the LOAD side to the LINE side of "B". THEN, the next two wires should be connected from this receptacle's LOAD side to his "2nd side" receptacle.

 

[MTN REMODEL LLC]

Chet....Yes maybe.....(I too think generally that is what he wants to do)

Guess I am a little questioning if the OP really does have his "SERIES" :wink2: circuit figured out correctly.

He says yes....

 

[David09022]

Chet....Yes maybe.....(I too think generally that is what he wants to do)

Guess I am a little questioning if the OP really does have his "SERIES" :wink2: circuit figured out correctly.

He says yes....

Ok, now you’re being an AH lol. I’m just replacing an outlet so I figured how hard can it be? Clearly, I don’t know what I’m doing. But everything works now. They trip and reset fine and my tester shows that everything is ok. I should be good right? My wife says that I’m not allowed to touch anything electrical until Covid goes away and I can call an electrician when I mess things up.

Is it not considered a series circuit if they are all connected and trip each other?


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[David09022]

Not trying to be an AH.....but when playing with electrical, it's kind of very important to "figure out".

You can end up with something seemingly working fine, but still very dangerous under different conditions.

There is nothing wrong with individually protected GFI receps (assuming wired correctly) or downstream receps GFI protected by one upstream.

Not sure what you mean about capping a bl;ack and white wire.

Try and make sure you do know what you're doing, or get a knowledgeable friend or electrician to assist....HONEST

So the first guy advised that I only use the line connections and not the load at all to protect each outlet separately.I have four wires. If I only use the line connections, one black and one white wire, then I have one black and one white left over that I would need to put a wire nut on before shoving it back in the box? No?


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[David09022]

If you're going to put in a GFCI receptacle everywhere you want GFCI protection, then do not use the LOAD lines. Use LINE only.

Only use LOAD when you specifically want to give GFCI protection to downline locations. It should never be used otherwise.

Most GFCI receps will accommodate 2 wires under each LINE screw.

Ohhh, two line wires under each screw! Duh. Ok, so just put all four wires under the line portion of the GFCI rep! I hear you now. Right now I’m using line and load on all the reps. Do I need to go back and change them to line only?


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[David09022]

I f’ed up my kitchen too if anyone wants a laugh. Again, it’s all working and the tester likes it but it’s not right.


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[MTN REMODEL LLC]

Dave,,,,

I do applaud your honesty and disclosure that you are not very familiar with electrical.

I just caution that when not understanding fully (even though something appears to be working under present condition), there still can be unsafe electrical issues.

I really am confused as to exactly what you have going there....so I'd rather not guess/advise.

CV does complicate the issue of getting more knowledgeable electrical help.


PS ( I think we all understand what you meant as a "series" circuit. And we understood that you are not experienced in electrical and explaining exactly what you have. You, in electrical terminolgy, do not have a series circuit...it is a parellel circuit. And there may be some confusion if you understand "line" and "load" and how GFI's work.)

That's not bad, no one was born understanding that...it's just possibly dangerous when working with electrical. That's all I'm warning.

Best

 

[David09022]

Mtn, no I appreciate that. At least I learned it’s a parallel circuit and not a series. Thanks.


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[seharper]

You can end up with something seemingly working fine, but still very dangerous under different conditions.

Yeah, on StackExchange I probably say that hundreds of times. "Lots of random combinations will work, and then kill you." If you don't know what you're doing, *find out*.

Ok, now you’re being an AH lol. I’m just replacing an outlet so I figured how hard can it be?

LOL I actually wrote a Q&A on that... it's complicated! And I thought I covered all the angles, but people keep adding to it...

It's like when a novice mechanic is trying to learn, and people tell him "Just change your oil!" Oooh, what a mess...

Is it not considered a series circuit if they are all connected and trip each other?

It's wired in parallel as far as the conductors are concerned... I call it "wired in a string" as far as the *cables* are concerned.

A basic rule of electrical is everything should be in a "tree" configuration, (which a string is a single branch tree, more like a vine but it qualifies). Cables should never loop back on each other.

Ohhh, two line wires under each screw! Duh. Ok, so just put all four wires under the line portion of the GFCI rep! I hear you now.

You got it!!! Almost all GFCIs provide a "Screw-and-clamp" style connection which is this here. The wires go in 2 slots under the screws and then you tighten the screw to clamp. Very firmly!

Right now I’m using line and load on all the reps. Do I need to go back and change them to line only?

Well, when you hook up GFCIs elephant style, ones LINE of the last one's LOAD... they will all trip. And it'll be like a tower of Hanoi puzzle trying to get them to all reset.

Basically, you're doing a Yo Dawg joke to yourself...

 

[David09022]

Lol...is that a yes or a no?


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[chetwisner]

I f’ed up my kitchen too if anyone wants a laugh. Again, it’s all working and the tester likes it but it’s not right.


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What happened?

 

[David09022]

What happened?

What happened?

So about a year ago, maybe more, I decided to start this “Yo Dawg” GFCI adventure. I went to Home Depot and installed five in my kitchen. No sweat, they all pasted their internal test as well as my circuit test. When I started changing out my bathroom outlets last week, I was standing in my kitchen, looked at each outlet to confirm and realized that all of them were 20amp outlets!! I laughed at myself and just happened to one extra 15amp that I wasn’t going to use in the bath room. I installed it no problem. So now I have four 20amp and one 15 amp in my kitchen. A few days later I found one more 15amp GFCI that I tried to switch out but it messed up the circuit somehow. Took down all the outlets but one. My wife started to give me that “you’re an idiot look” so I put the 20amp back on and everything worked fine. So here I am.


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[powersrp]

Hmmm,

first off you only need one gfi per curcuit, putting that many on a curcuit (if it is one curcuit) is going to cause problems. Check the breaker box to find out what size breaker is protecting that curcuit, you cannot use 15amp outlets on a 20 amp breaker(Fire), outlets must match breakers, 15amp outlet/15 amp breaker .GFIs should be located next to the sink, or any place you can touch water and a outlet at same time, however when you put them everywhere and the house was not wired for that your going to have problems. To many gfis on the same curcuit causes resistance, which trips them. I would start over and install gfi’s one at a time covering the wet areas. Another thing you can do is install gfi breakers in the breaker box for things like the garbage disposal.

Gfi’s can be located on the circuit which when tripped kills the whole circuit or just that outlet, Im not an electrician but i have done a lot of my own stuff over the years, doing what your doing will not always be to code, but make sure it is safe. you can google wiring circuits and it will show you how to do it. good luck


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[MTN REMODEL LLC]

Hmmm,

first off you only need one gfi per curcuit, putting that many on a curcuit (if it is one curcuit) is going to cause problems. Check the breaker box to find out what size breaker is protecting that curcuit, you cannot use 15amp outlets on a 20 amp breaker(Fire), outlets must match breakers, 15amp outlet/15 amp breaker NOPE.GFIs should be located next to the sink, or any place you can touch water and a outlet at same time, however when you put them everywhere and the house was not wired for that your going to have problems. NOPE..NOT NECESSARILY To many gfis on the same curcuit causes resistance, which trips them. NOPEI would start over and install gfi’s one at a time covering the wet areas. Another thing you can do is install gfi breakers in the breaker box for things like the garbage disposal.

Gfi’s can be located on the circuit which when tripped kills the whole circuit or just that outlet, Im not an electrician but i have done a lot of my own stuff over the years, doing what your doing will not always be to code, but make sure it is safe. you can google wiring circuits and it will show you how to do it. good luck


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I know you meant help.....BUT........

 

[David09022]

Electrician comes out tomorrow.


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