[bowlind1]

Noob here working on extending the lighting circuit in my garage. Currently, the garage has a finished ceiling with a master bedroom above, so no attic access is available. The builder only left a single round ceiling box with a 15-amp switched outlet for lighting - BOOOO!

Without attic access, I thought I would add a box extension ring to the existing ceiling box and run 1/2" surface mount conduit w/hangers to each downstream workbox. Wire it up with 14/2 NMB, add receptacles, and be on my merry way plugging in 40W 4' LED shop lights.

It didn't take long for me to run into my first problem. When installing the extension ring, the 1/2" knockouts aren't in the correct position (off by 45 degrees).

Without cutting out the existing workbox and installing an old-work ceiling box in the proper position, does anyone know of a slick way that will allow me to position the flush-mount box extension in the manner I need (rotated 45 degrees)? I have pictures, but it's asking for a URL when trying to insert an image.

Sorry for the noob question. I greatly appreciate ALL the help and support!

-Dusty B

 

[chandler48]

It may be a blessing in disguise for you. Come out of the ring with your male adapter, then add a 45 degree sweep, then your main run of lighting. If you need one on the other side, make the sweep go the other direction. It won't look bad and will help with the directional difficulty. You need to address the spacing between your add on ring and the ceiling and original box. Can't have that much spacing there.

 

[bowlind1]

It may be a blessing in disguise for you. Come out of the ring with your male adapter, then add a 45 degree sweep, then your main run of lighting. If you need one on the other side, make the sweep go the other direction. It won't look bad and will help with the directional difficulty. You need to address the spacing between your add on ring and the ceiling and original box. Can't have that much spacing there.

Thanks Larry! That idea will indeed work I believe. If I need to get the ceiling boxes in the same horizontal line across the ceiling, I can just make it up on the other end I suppose by adding a 45 sweep in the opposite direction(or just not worry too much about it since it's a garage).

My plan was to make up the gap with the same receptacle spacers (Ideal) that I used on my kitchen backsplash as I still have quite a few of those left over. Hopefully using those should allow me to get the spacing I need between the recessed workbox and the extension ring. I didn't tight it down for the image once I realized I was **** out of luck on the 1/2" knockout position.

Thanks for the help! :wink2:

 

[Jim Port]

Can you fish a cable into the existing box and run between the joists above the drywall?

 

[bowlind1]

Can you fish a cable into the existing box and run between the joists above the drywall?

Actually, for the two horizontal runs, that should be possible. Running vertically (from the front of the garage to the back) will be running against the joist, so that would certainly make things more difficult.

I would have to think about that. It would certainly get rid of the initial position, then just run surface mount boxes from the front to the back....

Interesting... Thanks for the idea!

 

[Oldmaster]

I've already drilled holes in the back of a 4 in. sq. box to match the screws in the octagon box.

 

[surferdude2]

I think what John was meaning was could you make a cable run out of the existing box and above the drywall lid to backfeed 4S box surface mounted (screwed to a joist) some convenient distance away and have it square with the room. Then you would still have the old box to mount the light on.

 

[brric]

While you are at it, correct the existing wiring. You should have a white and a black conductor for the lights. The black hot wire should be connected to the white wire from the switch leaving the black wire from the switch to the lights. Ground the extension ring.

 

[surferdude2]

While you are at it, correct the existing wiring. You should have a white and a black conductor for the lights. The black hot wire should be connected to the white wire from the switch leaving the black wire from the switch to the lights. Ground the extension ring.

°
I think this is a MWBC and the red wire is being switched at the feed point in the wall switch box. The black is a feed through circuit for receptacles or door opener.

 

[bowlind1]

°
I think this is a MWBC and the red wire is being switched at the feed point in the wall switch box. The black is a feed through circuit for receptacles or door opener.

Exactly - the black wires are tied off and feed the garage door opener. The red wire is the switch leg that feeds the light circuit and the whites are neutrals. I did notice that the receptacle wasn't connected to a ground, rather the grounds were tied off and shoved back into the box. I'm not sure if the ground is required for a light circuit or not but I might as well address that while I'm in there should anybody come later on behind me...

 

[bowlind1]

I think what John was meaning was could you make a cable run out of the existing box and above the drywall lid to backfeed 4S box surface mounted (screwed to a joist) some convenient distance away and have it square with the room. Then you would still have the old box to mount the light on.

I may end up doing this. I thought it may look a bit goofy with the rest of the garage being ran in EMT, but if it's only the front to back runs (against the joist), that may actually look very professional...

Dumb question, if I want to surface-mount a 4" octagon metal workbox and backfeed it from the origination receptacle above the drywall, where would I secure the workbox? Are you saying to screw up through the drywall into the ceiling joist and have the 1/2" knockout right next to the joist to feed the NMB through?

Thanks for the guidance!!

 

[bowlind1]

I've already drilled holes in the back of a 4 in. sq. box to match the screws in the octagon box.

I just so happen to have an extra 4" box available... Why do I like this solution, even though I'm sure it's probably not "the right way to do it"??

Sometimes, you just have to make it do what you want it to do!!

Thanks for the thought!!!!

 

[betelgeuse]

Wire it up with 14/2 NMB, add receptacles, and be on my merry way plugging in 40W 4' LED shop lights.

All 15 and 20 amp 120V receptacles in a garage require GFI protection.
The GFI has to accessible without a ladder so it can't be on the ceiling.

 

[bowlind1]

All 15 and 20 amp 120V receptacles in a garage require GFI protection.
The GFI has to accessible without a ladder so it can't be on the ceiling.

Good point! I know for certain all the wall receptacles are GFI protected. I'm not sure about the circuit in the ceiling as it was installed by MI Homes when the house was built in 2001. Hopefully they did it to NEC codes at the time!

 

[bowlind1]

Alright gang, after spending at hour at The Depot this evening and learning that all their octagonal extension rings have 1/2" AND 3/4" knockouts, I couldn't find a quick and easy solution. FWIW, they do sell an "All Weather Extension Ring" for $5 that has threaded 1/2" knockout that would indeed work, but I would still be required to bend the EMT on a 45 to get it to work. I have a 1/2" conduit bender, so I went ahead and picked it up.

Based on the existing 2 1/2" spread on the screws, I dug through and found a 4" square workbox and all the knockouts were 1/2" based on the punchout. Wouldn't you know that the 2 1/2" holes in the 4" workbox came pre-drilled with the 2 1/2" spread?

Armed with this info, I went ahead and got the cutoff wheel out and gutted the middle section. After several runs to deburr and some blue-oxide sandpaper for good measure, I ended up with the attached picture.

With this alignment, I should have a perfectly aligned workbox to run the EMT to all the downstream surface mount boxes without any bends or modifications. I'll let you know tomorrow how this works out - keep your fingers crossed!

Thanks and stay safe in these trying times!! God Bless!

 

[surferdude2]

if I want to surface-mount a 4" octagon metal workbox and backfeed it from the origination receptacle above the drywall, where would I secure the workbox? Are you saying to screw up through the drywall into the ceiling joist and have the 1/2" knockout right next to the joist to feed the NMB through?

Thanks for the guidance!!

Let me clarify. I was suggesting you could make a small hole (3/4" or so) adjacent to the ceiling joist and a short distance (4' or whatever and parallel with the ceiling joist) away from the existing octo box. Then put a 2-screw connector (with nut removed on a length of NM cable allowing 8" of wire for box entry. Then remove one of the KO's in the existing octo box and fish this prepared NM through the drywall hole you made and into that KO of the octo box. Then you can attach the other end to one of the back KO's of a 4 square box, not an octo, and screw and use 1 1/2" screws to attach the box (drill screw clearance holes in back of box if need be) to the ceiling joist (screws running through the drywall). All the NM cable will be hidden. Keep that new box square with the room and you can make neat EMT surface runs out of it to whatever other j-boxes or condulet fittings you may need to feed up to the walls above for the new receptacles you want to add.

That'll look so good that electricians from all around will come to take pictures of it! :biggrin2: