DIY Home Improvement Forum banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
We recently moved and have a stackable washer/dryer that runs off 220v. The new place has no 220 plug for the washer/dyer and we cannot have one installed so I have developed a way to do it that I believe would be safe.

Using a new pigtail from a stove I want to wire that into a junction box with a 4 wire 3 way 220v 40a switch. Out of the junction box on one side will use 8/3 wire to a stove outlet in a proper junction box since the stove is rated at 40 amp. On the other side with 10/3 wire use a 30 amp breaker box since the dyer is a 30 amp appliance. From the breaker box use 10/3 wire to a dryer outlet in a proper junction box. This will plug into the existing stove outlet for the source power and now would supply outlets for both the dryer & stove. But with the 3 way switch neither would be on at the same time.

From the source and 3-way switch

-> off
-> (8/3) stove outlet
-> (10/3) 30a breaker -> (10/3) dryer outlet

My question is does this sound like it would work safely? If so where can I find a 3-way switch like I mentioned?

Thanks for your help.

cheers,
Dan
 

·
You talking to me?
Joined
·
7,551 Posts
work/ from what I can see, yes

safe/ questionable

legal or acceptable/ not a chance


I'm trying to imagine what kind of switch you could even use for this. I can't come up with one that is actually made.
 

·
Scared Electrician
Joined
·
715 Posts
fused disconnect? nap?
 

·
Electrician
Joined
·
1,403 Posts
Why don't you get some 8/3 SJOW, put a stove plug on one end and put a small subpanel on the other end. Wire in a 2P30A with 10/3 to a dryer plug and a single pole 15A for the dryer. I can't see the 40A breaker tripping even if you had both the washer and dryer on. Skip the switch and just plug in the subpanel when needed.

Would this be considered legal in the US Nap.

Also if you have no hook up for a dryer plug i doubt if there is a hook up for a dryer vent. I'm sure you don't want that blowing all over your apartment.
 

·
Scared Electrician
Joined
·
715 Posts
so cord is not to be used in place of structure wiring. I think thats in a code section some where.
 

·
You talking to me?
Joined
·
7,551 Posts
fused disconnect? nap?


400.8 Uses not permitted (flexible cord)

(1) as a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure (i.e. cannot be used as a permanent installation)

there are other restrictions that could apply as well but basically, OP is using this as a permanent installation which is not allowed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,468 Posts
What about putting a plug and socket on the stove hook up,
Then you just unplug the stove and plug in the dryer ?
You should check if it is legal in your area.
But it would solve most of the probs,
If it is legal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thing is I can't plug and unplug the dryer. I had this setup before b/c we could reach where the stove was plugged in. I had a stove pigtail with a junction box wired with a dryer outlet on the end. Plug the dryer into the outlet unplug stove plug in the pigtail presto it worked great. Now there is no room to reach it easily.

As for the dryer vent that is no issue in runs out the window but before we use to use a nylon over the vent hose to collect the lint it worked great.

This is not a permanent structure.

I researched 3 position Cam Burner Switches rated for 40 amps but can't find out where to buy one. As for the dryer on the 40 amp line of the stove isn't that an issue? Someone suggested it would be that is why I was thinking of including the 30 amp box for the dryer.

I had this setup with a stove pigtail with a junction box and out of it one side the stove outlet the other the dryer. I told the wife not to put both on the same time but she did in the first 2 weeks blowing the fusse in the box so the landlord had to be called we do not have the box in our unit. This is the purpose of the switch. It would be either one or the other never both.

You guys mentioned s few things but I am a novice to electrical so it means little to me? I need things in layman terms to understand please if you can help. We really want to use our dryer and washer but need the safest solution. I know if it is done right it will be safe or I wouldn't do it.

thanks,
Dan
 

·
You talking to me?
Joined
·
7,551 Posts
I need things in layman terms to understand please if you can help.
from everything I see, it is illegal and I cannot find a way to make it legal.


and if I was your LL and saw that contraption, you would be out in a heartbeat.


btw: the reason you had to use a smaller fusing (the 30 amp) is because you listed #10 wire from the disco to the dryer. You cannot use a breaker/fuse larger than 30 amps with wire that size.

This is not a permanent structure.
it is in contrast to the section I posted previously:

400.8 Uses not permitted (flexible cord)

(1) as a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure (i.e. cannot be used as a permanent installation)
Then, on top of that, do you have the washer dryer setting next to your oven? If not, are you just running the extension cord across the floor?
 

·
You talking to me?
Joined
·
7,551 Posts
This is the switch I was looking at is it usable in my case? Anyone know of this type of switch and if they are available in Ontario? I am referring to the 40 amp model.

http://sunbrite.stores.yahoo.net/krnacamsw121.html

thx,
Dan
Nothing I see there that would work unless I am mistaken. The only 3 position switches list "off-pump-burner"

what that actually means is:

"off- pump- pump and burner" if I'm not mistaken.
 

·
You talking to me?
Joined
·
7,551 Posts
are you in Ontario dan? The info I was giving was for the US. While there are a lot of similarities in the US and Canadian electrical codes but there are enough differences so that you cannot depend on one being a replacement for the other.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,468 Posts
Whilst a lot of what you propose on a practicule level will work,
I think most electricains would be hesitant about this type of set up,
Mainly because it is not considered best practise.
Because electricains are ultimately liable for there
work should anything go wrong.
A 30a dryer on a 40a circuit might require a 30 fuse/breaker
for maximum safety.
What will the landlord say about these electrical modifications ?
What do the local electrical regulations allow ?
Please consider all these things before you go ahead !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
are you in Ontario dan? The info I was giving was for the US. While there are a lot of similarities in the US and Canadian electrical codes but there are enough differences so that you cannot depend on one being a replacement for the other.
Yes in Ont. The switch as I under means OFF - Burner On (pump off) - Pump on (burner off). Wouldn't this type of switch work to select either my stove outlet or dryer outlet?

I totally realize this is not a code setup. But I know if done with proper components and wiring it would be safe 100%. How couldn't be? All that aside I need to know the how to and the safest possible.

thx,
Dan
 

·
Wire Chewer
Joined
·
3,585 Posts
I would talk the landlord into installing the proper outlet and say that you're even willing to pay for it.

If he wont go for it, well you need to wash clothes, so I would go with the sub panel idea. If you have access to the electrical panel (and nobody else does) I would turn the breaker off just hard wire it properly, if not then the plug in will work... from a practical/safe point of view. Code is a whole other issue, I could not help you there.

Basically have the sub panel wired/plugged into the stove plug. This sub panel would have a 40 amp breaker with a stove plug and a 30 amp for the dryer. You could most likely get away with using both at once, if not the 40 that feeds it will trip, so it's not a safety issue, more a practicality issue. But a single round turned on should be fine.

If you run wire use conduit. (guessing you don't want to start tearing out drywall and such)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Whilst a lot of what you propose on a practicule level will work,
I think most electricains would be hesitant about this type of set up,
Mainly because it is not considered best practise.
Because electricains are ultimately liable for there
work should anything go wrong.
A 30a dryer on a 40a circuit might require a 30 fuse/breaker
for maximum safety.
What will the landlord say about these electrical modifications ?
What do the local electrical regulations allow ?
Please consider all these things before you go ahead !
Thanks I've considered them all. It is not something I am broadcasting to my LL. The 30a breaker was a precaution to insure more safety they are only $30 at Home Depot anyways.

The switch is my biggest concern to prevent her ever turning both on at the same time again. :( I guess I could make it so we could plug and unplug the stove to allow for the dryer but it would not be as neat.

Dan
 

·
You talking to me?
Joined
·
7,551 Posts
Yes in Ont. The switch as I under means OFF - Burner On (pump off) - Pump on (burner off). Wouldn't this type of switch work to select either my stove outlet or dryer outlet?

I totally realize this is not a code setup. But I know if done with proper components and wiring it would be safe 100%. How couldn't be? All that aside I need to know the how to and the safest possible.

thx,
Dan
I don't think those switches are as you suggest. It makes no sense., how would you have the pump and burner on at the same time which is how you would normally use such an appliance. Most of the pressure washers I have seen over the years do not have a tank for the water but a coil that works as an on demand water heater.

and I'll be darned if I can find any actual description of those switches.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I don't think those switches are as you suggest. It makes no sense., how would you have the pump and burner on at the same time which is how you would normally use such an appliance. Most of the pressure washers I have seen over the years do not have a tank for the water but a coil that works as an on demand water heater.

and I'll be darned if I can find any actual description of those switches.
You'd figure they'd put a better description of there function. I am still digging on how to do this. :( My wife needs her clothes as does the son. He will likely out grow them before there cleaned any ways... LOL he waks up bigger then when he went to bed. He becoming a beast... LOL

Dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,163 Posts
In the US, major appliances, per the NEC must be on their own circuits......period.
That being said, a transfer switch, much like used for generator usage would work to switch loads. But I'm not suggesting you do it.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top