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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have an uneven gravel driveway on one side of my property. It is not graded properly. Here is a profile sketch of the situation (I have pictures but pictures can't explain it).



The road is to the far right, where I indicated EOP (Edge Of Pavement).

Then the gravel driveway. The section between the house and the gravel driveway is lower. so when it rains, it becomes a shallow pond.

I also have a double wood gate about 20 feet back from the EOP.

So a few months ago I hired a bobcat service to come and remove some of the gravel and regrade that area to be sloped properly from house to EOP. A lot of gravel was scooped up and then the bobcat operator says OOPS, YOU HAVE AN ASPHALT DRIVEWAY UNDER ALL THIS.

Since he has already ripped some of the asphalt, I had the entire asphalt driveway ripped up and removed. I then spoke to some older neighbors who told me the city came around and put in a sewer line in 2005 and had everyone abandoned septic and connect to it, and at the same time raise the road grade. This makes all the driveway lower, so some replaced their driveway, some just dump gravel to build up the driveway, I guess the previous owner ordered too much gravel.

Once the gravel was removed, the wood gate posts on the edge of the driveway are 6-8 inches above "new grade".

Now I am installing a new concrete paver driveway. The city requires a lime rock base of 6" thick, then the contractor will do another layer of paver sand base 2-3" thick, then the paver bricks that are about 3" thick. To do all that they need to excavate another 4-6" deeper, before they build it back up with the lime rock base.

Which leads to my problem with the gate posts.

Originally these are 8' long 6X6 posts buried 24" below anchored with concrete. After two excavations, these posts are now exposed 10" more...they are buried only 13-14" deep instead of the 24". Not only that, I used an SDS rotary hammer with a chisel bit to clean up the exposed concrete back to bare wood for the paver install.





So now the posts are buried 10" less than they used to be, I felt one post is wobbling a little when I push it hard on one side. Not only that, I can see the two gates are now sagging towards each other a little, so probably one or both posts have leaned a little. I can't tell which one because these 6X6 PT posts have twisted over time so they were not perfectly plumb.

So I probably need to remove those posts and re-install them. Perhaps use 10' long post cut them to 9' long, dig down deeper and set them 3' deep.

But the paver contractor needs to complete the paver install, so I am looking at the finishing the paver install, then go back to remove pavers (may be a 3'X3' area?) around the posts, chisel out more concrete and pull up the 6X6 posts, install new posts and concrete, then reinstall the pavers again?

Or is adding a few inches or lime rock base, then a few inches of sand, then a few inches of pavers will anchor the posts better and stop the wobbling? I doubt it though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The posts were set previously by digging a hole 24" deep, 15" or so in diameter, then set using fast setting concrete mix. After the first and second excavation, about 10" of concrete got exposed, and so I used a SDS rotary hammer to chisel those exposed concrete off so they will not be in the way of the paver bricks. So now the posts are set in about 13-14" of concrete and sticking 82" or so above the lowered ground. Once paver is installed, there will be 6-7" above the new grade, but I don't think the new lime rock base, sand and pavers will actually help much.
 

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The posts were set previously by digging a hole 24" deep, 15" or so in diameter, then set using fast setting concrete mix. After the first and second excavation, about 10" of concrete got exposed, and so I used a SDS rotary hammer to chisel those exposed concrete off so they will not be in the way of the paver bricks. So now the posts are set in about 13-14" of concrete and sticking 82" or so above the lowered ground. Once paver is installed, there will be 6-7" above the new grade, but I don't think the new lime rock base, sand and pavers will actually help much.
So I probably need to remove those posts and re-install them. Perhaps use 10' long post cut them to 9' long, dig down deeper and set them 3' deep.
would be the right way to do it
 

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The posts were set previously by digging a hole 24" deep, 15" or so in diameter, then set using fast setting concrete mix. After the first and second excavation, about 10" of concrete got exposed, and so I used a SDS rotary hammer to chisel those exposed concrete off so they will not be in the way of the paver bricks. So now the posts are set in about 13-14" of concrete and sticking 82" or so above the lowered ground. Once paver is installed, there will be 6-7" above the new grade, but I don't think the new lime rock base, sand and pavers will actually help much.
Maybe
If you brace them in place and then dig down between the posts and remove the concrete just on the exposed side
and go deeper and tie the post to the new lower concrete.
Rectangle Parallel Font Symmetry City

This is what we put in foundations to stop houses from racking.
Slope Font Musical instrument Parallel Terrestrial plant
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Maybe
If you brace them in place and then dig down between the posts and remove the concrete just on the exposed side
and go deeper and tie the post to the new lower concrete.
View attachment 712903
This is what we put in foundations to stop houses from racking.
View attachment 712904
Thanks Neal. I understand what you sketched. Basically to dig a hole deeper than the original post and made a larger deeper hollow under it and pour new concrete, and tie the two concrete together.

I think this will end up being more effort than to just remove the pavers (after completed), remove the posts, and reset them though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I hate to say it but stop the paver guy and get new posts in. Also get your sewer located so you don't hit it.

Pictures look like more of a people gate.
The picture I posted is only a close up to show the post excavation. The whole picture involves a double gate (10' wide) with 6X6 posts and a pedestrian gate (4' wide) with a 4X6 post on the hinge side. The driveway is therefore about 14' wide across all three posts.



I cannot stop the paver work now. Both morally and logistically.

The paver portion has been slow going (permit applied in April, approved in June, pavers ordered in June, ready to pick up in September - yes, "supply chain"). The paver contractor dealing with rain every day, and there is a storm IAN coming our way, sigh...I really can't shut it down now.

My city's building services is ANAL and have lots of rules, on top of that I am in a historic district with additional rules some of which are insanely unreasonable. If you look at the picture above you can see I have added boards at the bottom of the gates, this is because after the two excavations, my gates are now hanging much higher, with too much clearance under. This allows ducks to pass under to go to my pool, and I had to catch them and release them every day. That's why I have to add boards. The city has already come by to inspect the excavation and rough in formwork of the driveway concrete footers, and have taken pictures of my gates. These pictures will be reviewed by other departments, so even public works approved the excavation and concrete formwork, I believe zoning will give me a citation soon for the gates hanging too high (thus allowing kids to crawl under the gates to be drown in my pool), and to resolve this I need to lower the gates...which requires a separate permit. Since I am thinking of removing the posts and resetting them deeper, this also require a separate permit (cannot mess with any rails and posts without a permit and only picket replacement is acceptable). That permit of post replacement will trigger a series of events because new gates can only be 3' high maximum in our historic district since 2017 if that gate faces a street plus a gate cannot cross over the property line when it's fully opened, which means a 5' gate has to set back 5' from the property line. But to make a long story short, if I mess with the gate posts I trigger a series of events that will run out of control.

Here is a picture of the gates and how high they are after the footer formwork was installed.

 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks Neal. I understand what you sketched. Basically to dig a hole deeper than the original post and made a larger deeper hollow under it and pour new concrete, and tie the two concrete together.

I think this will end up being more effort than to just remove the pavers (after completed), remove the posts, and reset them though.
What I am wondering, is once the paver install is completed, the 2-3/8" paver bricks will be cut to meet the posts. I then need to remove a bunch of pavers around each post to work on it. Once I removed the pavers, let's say I remove 10, 12 pieces, and scoop out the sand base and rock base above the concrete post anchor, then I start to chisel at the concrete with a steel bar, and I will begin to rock the 6X6 post back and forth a little, doing this will result in the next surrounding row of pavers' gravel and sand to cave or move, but I can't really "finesse" the post out, there will be some blunt force and cursing involved. The concrete chunk may be bigger than I think (since the posts were installed at the same place the old gate posts were which means enlarged holes). I don't see this being easy.
 

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What I am wondering, is once the paver install is completed, the 2-3/8" paver bricks will be cut to meet the posts. I then need to remove a bunch of pavers around each post to work on it. Once I removed the pavers, let's say I remove 10, 12 pieces, and scoop out the sand base and rock base above the concrete post anchor, then I start to chisel at the concrete with a steel bar, and I will begin to rock the 6X6 post back and forth a little, doing this will result in the next surrounding row of pavers' gravel and sand to cave or move, but I can't really "finesse" the post out, there will be some blunt force and cursing involved. The concrete chunk may be bigger than I think (since the posts were installed at the same place the old gate posts were which means enlarged holes). I don't see this being easy.
Quite a conundrum you have there. All that for a driveway....that's crazy.

I guess I have no way to guide you through this with so many regulations.

By the way, ducks don't fly where you live either?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Quite a conundrum you have there. All that for a driveway....that's crazy.

I guess I have no way to guide you through this with so many regulations.

By the way, ducks don't fly where you live either?
They do fly, but they typically take the easy paths. They could fly over the fence into my property, may be once or twice a month. But with the gates high, they can walk in, then it's a daily occurrence. Most often than not, what I see is a party. Like one mother duck with 14 chicky ducks, all in my pool, so I have to fish them out of the pool one by one, because the chicks can get inside the pool but can't get back out, too small, but they peddle fast and it takes time to fish them out with a net and give them back to duck momma.

My best bet, is if zoning doesn't see the gates hanging too high, and give me a citation for violation, then I can over a weekend, after the driveway is done, but before final inspection, to hang the gates lower. Then the final inspections by zoning, building, landscape, public works (yes 4 departmental inspection LOL). Hopefully they say nothing, if they do I just play dumb and say if I don't hang them lower quickly kids can get drown I can't not act and see if they let it slide. If they do then I will redo the gate posts on weekends myself hopefully not get caught.
 
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