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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What is everyone's thoughts on driveway geotextile?

I own 60+ acres of land, and plan to build soon. My house will be about 800ft from the road. I put in new electrical service last year (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/new-service-project-thread-520130/)

I already have a 400 ft stone driveway on the lot which is about 10 years old. I used US Fabrics US250 geotextile on that stone driveway, and after 10 years the drive is quite a mess. It's no longer crowned, and it seems to hold water in depressions. I have yet to add more stone. Maybe going 10 years without adding more crusher run is the reason it's in such poor shape.

For my house, I am putting in a completely new driveway, eventually the two will be connected in a large U-turn driveway.

The soil at my land is all sandy loam. When I dug my ponds I discovered that I didn't hit any clay until about 7.5 ft depth, and the clay I did find was all very silty and unstable. I eventually hit glacial till (https://imgur.com/Nzla81G) at 15ft. The glacial till consists of very dense red clay mixed with small broken particles of shale, combined with river rock anywhere from 2" diameter to 4-5 ft diameter.

For both the driveways I scraped off the vegetation and top soil and put in about a 1 ft thick base of the glacial till, it was the stiffest material I had on site. For the existing 10 year old driveway I put the geotextile right over the top of the glacial till, and then 6" of "crusher run" over top of the fabric. I spread it out with my dozer. I never did get a chance to roll the stone as I don't have a roller.

The question is, for those with experience building/owning/maintaining stone roads/driveways, do I again use the geotextile?

I am wondering if I made the situation worse by using the glacial till as a driveway bed, as it doesn't drain very well? Driving on the existing stone pumps up water unless it is the middle of summer, even though the driveway is about 1 ft above grade...
 

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Not compacting your crusher run, was your biggest failure.

It allowed the crushed stones to compact unevenly, and made ruts, potholes, and the crown to settle.

Next time get a compacter on there, and build it right.


ED
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Not compacting your crusher run, was your biggest failure.

It allowed the crushed stones to compact unevenly, and made ruts, potholes, and the crown to settle.

Next time get a compacter on there, and build it right.


ED
By compactor you just mean a roller? How heavy?

Also, the stone quarry convinced me to use 3/4 crusher run, should I use 1-1/2 crusher run this time?
 

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A vibrating roller, would be great, especially the ride on kind, but a manual one will work, if you want to put out the effort.

A rental store should have one, get the biggest that they have, because you only want to do this once, and have a long lasting driveway.

3/4 should be best, it compacts very well, and will be a great road bed.

One more piece of advice, Do not ever spin your wheels, or drive fast , and it will last a long time.


ED
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hmm, renting a vibratory roller looks like it will cost me quite a bit for one day. I definitely don't want a walk behind for a 12ft wide x 800 ft long driveway.

Maybe I can get the stone all spread out and then not drive on it until I can get a paving contractor on site to roll it out for me. Can't imagine it would take more than 1/2 day to roll it...
 

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You need to hire a soil engineer as there's a lot more involved than adding 3/4" stone and compacting it , your going to need several different sizes of stone and some serious excavation if you want it done right.
 

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The question is, for those with experience building/owning/maintaining stone roads/driveways, do I again use the geotextile?

I am wondering if I made the situation worse by using the glacial till as a driveway bed, as it doesn't drain very well? Driving on the existing stone pumps up water unless it is the middle of summer, even though the driveway is about 1 ft above grade...
Ayuh,..... Just My take on it, 'n ya, I'm in the biz,.....

I would say Yes, use the fabric, 'tween the crushed stone, 'n whatever's under it,.....

Ideally, ya cut the subgrade, which We call the Box-out, as yer buildin' a box to put the stone in,.....
So that the box is pitched to self drain to daylight,.....

Then roll out the fabric, 'n backfill,.....

For a 1' box-out, 'n back-fill, 6/8" of 4"minus stone, then 1, 1/2" crusher-run to within' an inch, then cap it out with 3/4"minus crusher-run,.....

If you could compact every 2"/ 4" lift would be Great,.....
If ya can't gravity will do the job,.....

You'd have a 50 year stone driveway, or a Great base for pavin' later,....

If the till yer talkin' 'bout is the till I've known,.....
Ya, I think that was the wrong place for it,.....

It's ok fill, if properly drained, 'n kept drier,....
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
You need to hire a soil engineer as there's a lot more involved than adding 3/4" stone and compacting it , your going to need several different sizes of stone and some serious excavation if you want it done right.

Topsoil was excavated and glacial till base put in 10+ years ago, it's too late to get that out now. The driveway bed is already 1ft above grade.

I know some people who swear on not using fabric and putting stone in every year for 10 years as it sinks, then they are ready for black top... I would think the fabric is a better idea than 10 years of losing $tone.

I do know a soils engineer to contact, will get his opinion.

If the till yer talkin' 'bout is the till I've known,.....
Ya, I think that was the wrong place for it,.....
I'm up near the Great Lakes, so not sure if the glacial till I used is different than any other. It was the stiffest material I had on site.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Here are some ~10 year old pictures of the glacial till material I spread out for the driveway base.

https://imgur.com/a/Kbqr82L

I excavated out the "black" topsoil and then backfilled about 12-18" of this till.

A picture from last summer, the driveway base is to the right of the trench where my backhoe is.

https://imgur.com/zATmG3H

My plan was to use the box blade teeth to rip up the sod that is now on top of the glacial till, level and crown the till the full 800 ft length, then geotextile and then the crusher run. Smooth that out and crown, then rent a vibratory roller.

If I have to dig that till out again, will be at a huge expense, hoping I don't have to.
 

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Well that till has to come out if you want a driveway that will hold up, it is the wrong material in the first place, way too many fines to make a good base course, drive on that when it's wet and it will turn into a quagmire, Bondo gave you good advice, and here's a link on how it should be done, that is if you want it to last.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/choose-gravel-driveway-33887.html
 

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You can use Quick Lime to stabilize the till soil. Also if you have a cement plant near by that produces the power cement product the waste cement will also help stabilize the soil.


The last thing you want in there is washed out concrete, you will never stabilize it and it's worse than the till that he has in there now, and lime is not the answer either in this case.
 

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lime-stabilization is a proven method for strengthening soils down here but the cost is very high,,, we did it on i-states but not even on county roads,,, follow bondo's advice as woody said,,, washout conc's certainly NOT an acceptable solution
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well that till has to come out if you want a driveway that will hold up, it is the wrong material in the first place, way too many fines to make a good base course, drive on that when it's wet and it will turn into a quagmire, Bondo gave you good advice, and here's a link on how it should be done, that is if you want it to last.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/choose-gravel-driveway-33887.html
The material under the till is sandy loam, 7.5 ft deep of it, which is even finer than the till...

Waiting to see what the civil engineer I contacted has to say, he's very familiar with the soil in my area.

Not sure why I can't put all those layers of gravel on top f the till, seems to me, has to be better than on top of loam...
 

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The last thing you want in there is washed out concrete, you will never stabilize it and it's worse than the till that he has in there now, and lime is not the answer either in this case.
Check with the Highway research department in your area for reference on what material is used for soil stabilization. Yes crushed slag & recycled concrete is used for road subsoil. Also check on this article by S. Donahue & M. Long Ground Improvement Assessment. Here in South Carolina Lime & crushed Lime Stone is used for road bead subsoil. As for wash out that was not the reference for concrete by products it is the by product of the concrete manufactured product or batches that did not meet spec. This product is ground and added to the existing soil along with the Lime which will produce a very hard surface. Another material used is crushed lime stone the same material used in the production of Cement.
 

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Call the local State Highway department and ask what they use to stabilize the soil for road beds this info should not cost you anything as it is public info.
Also if you go with the soil engineer you can compare the spec. of each one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Call the local State Highway department and ask what they use to stabilize the soil for road beds this info should not cost you anything as it is public info.
Also if you go with the soil engineer you can compare the spec. of each one.
I found this: https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/engineering/design/dqab/hdm

Will have to read through it and see if it has any pertinent info.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I have also decided to hire the civil engineer to design the driveway.
 
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