[Briandl]

I'm used to priming things without paint, or if I'm going over a darker color.

In this case I'm just going over dirty old white with new white. I think the paint is a flat and I'll probably want to go over it with a satin or semi-gloss to make it more durable, as it's a rental.

I'm leaning strongly towards Sherwin Williams instead of the BEHR that I usually use.

Should I prime this first?

TIA.

 

[Leah Frances]

Yes. And you really need to wash that wall before you do anything.

 

[Briandl]

Shows what I know, I figured quality paint would be enough.

While I'm asking, for anyone that uses Sherwin Williams, what line do you guys prefer/recommend?

 

[jsheridan]

From a guy who's done a lot of rental repaints (I use to live in a huge complex that I did repainting for, in fact that's how I found the place I moved to. I painted the places first, then moved into an apartment that I painted and liked.) We used MAB Fresh Kote flat on walls that looked like that, no problem, covered like a champ one coat. IMO, no other brand has the hide that MAB has. From time to time some stains would bleed through, touch with oil and reflat. Short of that I would coat entirely with Zinsser oil based Cover Stain primer/sealer, one coat tinted to match your finish. Then apply one coat of flat with a 1/2 inch roller. Tell the paint guy at SW you need a low priced, high hide interior flat.

 

[Gymschu]

You would be surprised at how often white does not cover over white in one coat. As bad as those walls look, I say prime.......however, having done many rentals in the past, you hate to spend a lot of time and money on walls that get abused all over again with new renters. Either way you're looking at two coats of paint at least on those "abused, dirty" walls.

 

[jsheridan]

You would be surprised at how often white does not cover over white in one coat. As bad as those walls look, I say prime.......however, having done many rentals in the past, you hate to spend a lot of time and money on walls that get abused all over again with new renters. Either way you're looking at two coats of paint at least on those "abused, dirty" walls.

Govt regs are making white harder to cover white with two coats anymore. That's why I suggested a color, like bone white, for increased cover. As to primer, I think anything short of an oil primer/sealer is a waste of time. Those walls look like they need some serious chemicals. I wouldn't waste my time washing them either if a rental. OP, a thought to ponder, the higher the gloss level, the harder to cover. You say go with a sheen for durability, against what? Do you think the only reason those walls are dirty as they are is because they're flat and the people couldn't wash them? Sheen paint will get dirty and grimy as well, will you simply wash them the next time instead of repainting? The obvious answer to both is no. You should focus on getting the best coverage to combat what is inevitable and do that at each turnover. Concern about maintenance between tenants/recoats is wasted effort, respectfully. Get in, make them look decent quickly as possible, get out.

 

[Briandl]

So if I prime, what do you guys recommend? I know Killz is the most well known, but I've heard Zinser is really good. I know Sherwin Williams also makes a primer.

I've just never been a big fan of flat paint, even in my own home.

 

[ltd]

imho no need to prime unless this is nicotine or water stains.are you wrong to prime ? no. but i think for a apt. its over kill. what i would do and this is coming from a sherwin williams guy .2 coats valspar 2000 contractor satin in a off white from lowe's .about 20 dollars a gal. spot clean and paint if you want s/w go super paint more money but a great paint

 

[Briandl]

I was at the SW just a few minutes ago, and by my description he said I probably wouldn't need to prime. Just like you're saying he said if there were smoke stains or mold or something like that I would, but if it's just generally grungy as I described it I shouldn't need to prime.

I told him I'd bring some pics next time to give him a better idea.

I'm wondering too though like you said if I'd be better off with some contractor type bulk paint. I used some Olympic Fast Hide Commercial Quality and it was pretty cheap and covered decently, certainly no worse than the BEHR, but it was like half the price.

Super Paint in a satin runs 45.99 a gallon.

 

[housepaintingny]

There should be no need to prime, unless you have stains. If this is a rental I would use Sherwin Williams Promar 200, if your looking to spend less money you could use Promar 400, or SW master hide. All three will cover good in two coats, Promar 200 is the best of the three and master hide is the lowest, but will still cover in two coats.

 

[Leah Frances]

Govt regs are making white harder to cover white with two coats anymore.

Reference needed..... Please.

 

[Briandl]

Keep the recommendations coming, seems split between priming and not.

That Valspar sounds good since it's cheap. If it were my house I'd go Sherwin Williams, but I'm looking for the best bang for the buck since it's a rental.

SW isn't too expensive, but it adds up.

 

[jsheridan]

Reference needed..... Please.

Whhhyyyy? Do you want me to provide scientific data that proves that the govt forcing paint cos to remove/reduce voc's is minimizing/changing the effectiveness of products? I don't have any. But, I have extensive daily experience working with products whose qualities and characteristics I know well, and those have changed. And, I know other contractors with the same complaints. I've had discussions with paint store employees who openly admit it, they're getting complaints. I just had a discussion with a sales rep for a prominent exterior stain company who told me that practically no products are performing as they used to, and he's getting complaints. That's all the reference I can supply.

 

[Briandl]

I'm no expert obviously, but I've heard that before about paint.

 

[Briandl]

Right now I'm leaning towards the Valspar Contractor Finishes 2000. Flat for the ceiling, eggshell for the walls, and semi for the trim.

I figure I have to clean the walls to some degree no matter what, I'm sure there's dust and cobwebs. So I'm leaning towards using a stiff bristle brush, and then maybe some diluted TSP.

After that I may just try out a section to see if the paint covers without primer. If it doesn't I'll go ahead and prime it.

Thoughts?

 

[chrisn]

Right now I'm leaning towards the Valspar Contractor Finishes 2000. Flat for the ceiling, eggshell for the walls, and semi for the trim.

I figure I have to clean the walls to some degree no matter what, I'm sure there's dust and cobwebs. So I'm leaning towards using a stiff bristle brush, and then maybe some diluted TSP.

After that I may just try out a section to see if the paint covers without primer. If it doesn't I'll go ahead and prime it.

Thoughts?

I would forget the TSP and use Dirtex, otherwise, you're good to go.

 

[Leah Frances]

Whhhyyyy? Do you want me to provide scientific data that proves that the govt forcing paint cos to remove/reduce voc's is minimizing/changing the effectiveness of products? I don't have any. But, I have extensive daily experience working with products whose qualities and characteristics I know well, and those have changed. And, I know other contractors with the same complaints. I've had discussions with paint store employees who openly admit it, they're getting complaints. I just had a discussion with a sales rep for a prominent exterior stain company who told me that practically no products are performing as they used to, and he's getting complaints. That's all the reference I can supply.

Your assertion sounded so authoritative that I assumed there was some change in government regulations that I could read. Thanks for being honest :thumbsup: and telling me that you are assuming there is some change in government regulations based on your professional experience and that of your peers.

 

[jsheridan]

PM5K, Many of the guys here who are advising you are pros that hang at PaintTalk as well. Meaning, you'll get basically the same advice there. There are no breakthroughs in painting that are going to solve your problem. You have a filthy situation there that requires some heavy duty stuff. And, I'm sure that's only one snapshot of a much wider picture. Do you really want to get down on your hands and knees and clean that mess? To me, rubber gloves wouldn't be enough, I'd wear a wetsuit. It's a rental, painting is an expense, treat it as such. What you like and what you prefer are reserved for PM5K the homeowner, and what works best in the quickest fashion with the least amount of expense is for PM5K the landlord/businessman. I suggested using oil based Cover Stain Primer Sealer, tinted to match your finish, and apply one finish over top, an off white for max hide. I suggest oil for two reasons, one is that lingering among all that filth is probably a lot of incidental stains that may bleed through latex alone--hand grease, crayon, food stuffs, water stains, etc. The second is to lock down all that filth. No paint sticks to dirt, but oil will stick better than latex. Labor is your biggest cost, use material to your advantage.
Choose a color
Have the cover stain tinted to match that color, use a 3/8 cover
Apply one top coat, eggshell, flat, whatever, use a 1/2 cover
A base coat of tinted cover stain will do all the work and you're free to use whatever brand finish you like. Two coats you're done, no cleaning, no spot priming stains and touching up, max coverage, and you'll have a much sounder surface, IMO, than with cleaning and two coats of flat. You went to PaintTalk looking for pro recommendations, there you go. No screwing around.

 

[jsheridan]

Your assertion sounded so authoritative that I assumed there was some change in government regulations that I could read. Thanks for being honest :thumbsup: and telling me that you are assuming there is some change in government regulations based on your professional experience and that of your peers.

It's a logical conclusion Leah. The govt is requiring the manufacturers to remove components of paint formulas to meet their requirements on VOC. If those components didn't serve a purpose they wouldn't have been there to begin with. Remove a component and the problem that component resolved is no longer solved. Surely, the companies found some new ways to solve some of those problems, but not all. And some of the new found solutions are still in beta form. Some haven't been solved. We're in a lurch right now. We're in the same bind with energy, the govt is slowly starving us of brown energy while the quantity of green energy we need is not scientifically nor logistically available currently, and won't be for decades. I doubt it will take the paint companies decades to recoup, but with energy it surely will.

 

[Leah Frances]

It's a logical conclusion Leah. The govt is requiring the manufacturers to remove components of paint formulas to meet their requirements on VOC. If those components didn't serve a purpose they wouldn't have been there to begin with. Remove a component and the problem that component resolved is no longer solved. Surely, the companies found some new ways to solve some of those problems, but not all. And some of the new found solutions are still in beta form. Some haven't been solved. We're in a lurch right now. We're in the same bind with energy, the govt is slowly starving us of brown energy while the quantity of green energy we need is not scientifically nor logistically available currently, and won't be for decades. I doubt it will take the paint companies decades to recoup, but with energy it surely will.

Thanks for taking the time to explain that you were talking about the reduction of VOCs. I get it, now. Don't mind me. I just really like a reference/footnote/appendix etc. And I do really appreciate you realizing I wasn't trying to be argumentative, just to understand the topic better. :thumbup: