[TomOhio]

Hi all.

We just bought an old house... a really old house (1853). The retrofitted electrical system is very sparse. There's a 100-amp box in the basement, and (were) about a half-dozen circuits coming from it with a single receptacle on each. We have completely gutted the interior and I've wired up temporary receptacles to run tools, stripping out everything else.

The service attaches to the house at the southeast corner of the original house. There was an addition put on the east end of the house at a later time. So, now, the service comes in basically in the middle of the front of the house. I'd like to move the service to the end of the house, out onto the southeast corner of the addition, but there is only a crawlspace under that section of the house. So, the breaker box must stay essentially where it is.

Making the change I want would require that the service cable from the meter enter the house on the east end and travel about 25-30 feet inside the crawlspace until it reaches the breaker box. My question is... can I do that and still meet code? Since the cable inside the house would be prior to the breaker box, I feel like I should put some kind of shutoff on the cable outside after the meter... but I don't know if that would meet code or not either.

Any help with any information or a reference to the proper code would be greatly appreciated. I've remodeled a number of houses over the years and always passed the code inspection, but I'm not sure about this issue and I cannot find it in the (admittedly old) NEC book I have.

THANKS!

 

[Wirenuting]

230.70 General.
Means shall be provided to disconnect all
conductors in a building or other structure from the serviceentrance
conductors.

(A) Location.
The service disconnecting means shall be
installed in accordance with 230.70(A)(1), (A)(2), and
(A)(3).

(1) Readily Accessible Location.
The service disconnecting
means shall be installed at a readily accessible location
either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the
point of entrance of the service conductors.

There is no set distance

But ask your local inspector before moving the service.

 

[joed]

The standard for unfused service entrance conductors INSIDE the house is usually 3-5 feet. I believe the code is worded something like 'as short as possible a distance'.
so you could
1. Install a fused disconnect(breaker) at the meter.
2. Run the conductors on the outside of the house.

 

[Wirenuting]

The standard for unfused service entrance conductors INSIDE the house is usually 3-5 feet. I believe the code is worded something like 'as short as possible a distance'.
so you could
1. Install a fused disconnect(breaker) at the meter.
2. Run the conductors on the outside of the house.

There is no "standard" except for what your location requires.
Installing a fused disconnect at the meter my be an unnessary additional expense.
What would be the reason to run it exposed?

The OP should talk to his local inspection dept. to get his local requirements.

 

[Jim Port]

If the unfused conductors are outside the cable the length is unlimited. Once they enter the envelop of the house they need to be as short as practical as already stated. If a disconnect with overcurrent protection is set you can again run as far as you want. Some areas may have a hard limit, but the NEC does not.

 

[TomOhio]

Thanks for all the help, guys. FYI... I called our local building inspector, and he said "Well, whatever the NEC says is what we go by." Sounded like he was eating a donut when I called.

Let me make sure I understand. Since I will be running this cable about 30 feet in the crawl space, I need to put a service disconnect just after the meter. Correct?

Assuming correct, can someone give me a link to a sample device? Every time I google "service cable disconnect" or the like, I get referred to the Time Warner Cable website. I want to make sure that when I go to my local supply house I know enough that I buy the right thing without sounding like a total... well, you know.

Thanks again.

 

[Wirenuting]

Since your moving the meter, have the supply house give you a Meter/main/disconnect.
It's an all in one. Make sure the socket is comparable to your utilities meter.

 

[rjniles]

Since your moving the meter, have the supply house give you a Meter/main/disconnect.
It's an all in one. Make sure the socket is comparable to your utilities meter.

Agree. This will give you breaker positions for a main disconnect and any additional circuits you might need outside. Often those positions are used for HVAC equipment. The supply house will know if the meter socket is the one used by your POCO.

 

[sbrn33]

You will need an outdoor disconnect. At least in about 95% of the USA. Remember you will need 4 wires from the disco to the sub.

I would use a Milbank U5168-XTL-200 cost me around $250

 

[Jim Port]

You will need an outdoor disconnect. At least in about 95% of the USA. Remember you will need 4 wires from the disco to the sub.

I would use a Milbank U5168-XTL-200 cost me around $250

The OP would need to check for the list of acceptable meter and or meter main equipment. It is not a universal list.

They should also check to see if the meter can be moved. It is up to the power company.

 

[Wirenuting]

The OP would need to check for the list of acceptable meter and or meter main equipment. It is not a universal list.

They should also check to see if the meter can be moved. It is up to the power company.

The OP said he was moving his service. That's the reason for the thread.

 

[Jim Port]

The power company may not allow it to move. That is why is said to check. Moving it but finding out they will not connect will not be helpful.

 

[TomOhio]

The power company may not allow it to move. That is why is said to check. Moving it but finding out they will not connect will not be helpful.

Jim, while I appreciate the help, I have to say that I've never heard of the power company not moving a service. I've done a number of these, and the issue has never even been brought up before. I suppose there's a possibility that the new planned position may create a safety issue, but that's for the inspector to determine. The only circumstance I can think of that might be a problem is if the service would have to pass through a tree to get to the house.

 

[joed]

Or over another building like a garage. Or the connection point is too close to a window or balcony.

 

[Oso954]

Are you a customer of First Energy or a subsidiary ?
Here is a quote for you from their Information and Guidance for Electric Customers.

The Company will assume no responsibility for changing the location of its service drop attachments if an improper location is chosen without consultation with the Company, or if the mutually acceptable location is not utilized.

Most POCO's have a similar statement in their guidlines or standards.

You need to talk to a POCO service planner and get their concurrence with your new plan for the service drop and meter location. Most POCO's do walk away from any installation they don't approve of.

 

[Jim Port]

Jim, while I appreciate the help, I have to say that I've never heard of the power company not moving a service. I've done a number of these, and the issue has never even been brought up before. I suppose there's a possibility that the new planned position may create a safety issue, but that's for the inspector to determine. The only circumstance I can think of that might be a problem is if the service would have to pass through a tree to get to the house.

Even if approved by the inspector the power company still has the right of refusal to connect if it does not meet their criteria. Why risk the time and materials to find out the power company will not connect to it?

 

[Wirenuting]

PoCo follows the NESC

 

[rjniles]

Even if approved by the inspector the power company still has the right of refusal to connect if it does not meet their criteria. Why risk the time and materials to find out the power company will not connect to it?

Too often we get posters who are reluctant to speak to the electrical inspector or the POCO. Often it is a reluctance to get a permit and have it inspected. This is huge mistake. It costs more to have something corrected than to do it properly the first time.