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I tore out an old deck that was rotten. The ledger (2x10) was bolted into the concrete foundation these bolts are still present. They then had 2x10 joists ON TOP of the ledger toe nailed in. The reason for this I believe is because the door is about 12 inches above the top of the old ledger. I now want to put in a new deck. Do I do the same process? Is there a better method for getting the necessary height to match up with the door? I do not want to raise the ledger because that would involved cutting out the stucco to make it fit. Any assistance would be appreciated.
 

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I think you answered your own question. You don't want to mess with the stucco so do it the same. If you use new treated lumber for the ledger you should use hot dipped galvanized bolts. The old bolts might not be hot dipped galvanized.
 

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Thanks jogr. I just wasn't sure if it was good practice to toe nail 2x10's to the top of the ledger but I gues once everything is in place the joist will not move.
 

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I don't see any way that will be structurally sound. The idea to bolt a ledger to the house is so it won't pull away laterally. With two boards stacked, you have zero lateral resistance. Shear, yes.

Bite the bullet, cut and flash the stucco. Be safe, G
 

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You might want to add some galvanized ties if you are concerned but I believe what you are doing is fairly common practice. Do take the time to check with your communities building department just in case there is a specific requirement that have changed since the old deck was built.

Rege

Rege
 

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A picture would help
So any water that goes between the 1st deck board & the stucco runs down to the ledger board & then down?

Any flashing at the top where the deck boards are?
What about on the ledger?
 

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Ths would not be the way to structure the deck. Ledgers on houses are generally done incorrectly by homeowners. They don't attach them to the house the right way. They don't flash them correctly.
Resting a deck ledger on another ledger and toenailing it is... ill advised.
Set posts near the house and make the deck independant of the house.
Ron
 

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It seems like everyone is getting off track or not reading the original post. What he wants to do is rest the joist on top of a ledger that is bolted to the concrete and toe nail the joist to the ledger. How is this wrong assuming there is proper blocking? On the subject of flashing, in the past I would have agreed with flashing the ledger but I have come across a few decks that were only a few years old where the ledger seems to cause more problems than it was solving. I am wondering, when using treated lumber if you are not better off leaving the flashing off and caulking on top between the ledger and the house just to keep water from pooling there.

Rege
 

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Its wrong in several ways including the fact that a couple nails toenailed in wont properly hold the deck to the house... period. If joist hangers are used properly they can have as many as 15-20 nails. If it were me, I think I would attach the deck to a ledger and then build a nice curved step to split the difference to the door. Use your imagination.... and the ledger.
 

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Just to comment on the basics here....... The ledger has already rotted out once. (Isn't that why you are looking at just the bolts now) and you want to do this all again? Even if you flashed the ledger, you intend to toe-nail through the flashing? Caulking's not a bad idea, but caulking usually only makes it a couple of years. How ya gonna recaulk up under there? And WOULD most people?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
There was no rot on the ledger just everywhere else. What if I double up the ledger to add additional space to toe nail the joist to and put blocking between all joists. It seems to me this deck once completed with boards would have little chance of moving side to side. the dimensions are 18 feet long by only 5 feet wide. Thus the 5 foot joists would be toe nailed to 3inches of ledger. I guess i could do them on 12 inch centers?
 

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bumper,

I don't think you need to double up the ledger and toe nailing properly should give you pull away resistance. I know everyone puts a lot of faith in the joist hangers because they provide much more support for the joist than nailing. In your case the ledger is providing the support directly. As long as it is properly attached to the house I can not see a problem. If there is enough force to pull toe nailed joists away from the house you have bigger problems that needed to be addressed before constructing a deck.
 

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If you are using a pressure treated ledger on an exposed concrete foundation wall then I see little benefit from flashing. Some might argue the PT ledger would last a tad longer if no moisture can get between the concrete and the ledger I guess.

I don't see any way that fourteen or fifteen 5 ft joists toenailed into the top of the ledger are going to allow the deck to pull out away from the house. All those nails would have to shear off, it's not like they are nailed into the face of the ledger where they could pull out.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks everybody for the advise. I will proceed as rege indicated. I most likely won't flash and will just use a couple of washers to keep the pressure treated wood away from the cement foundation.
 

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Don't use the washers. The benefit of the airspace you are creating will soon be gone when it fills with debris and it will not be as strong. Keep it tight to the cement.

Rege
 

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OK, I did some research on side toe-nailing lateral resistance. Standing alone, they don't have much shear, but with the required by code blocking, they do. The blocking is for lateral overturning. Code stated here, page 15:
http://www.strongtie.com/ftp/fliers/F-DECKCODE09.pdf

No one asked where your location is. If FL, or CA, or other high wind or seismic zone, you may need H - 1's (lateral shear of 165#). I would recommend these, instead. I wouldn't toe-nail, fact that water could rot there. If do, cover with caulking, under the joist too.

Remember to seal the end grain of each joist against water.

Run a bead of caulk the length of the ledger, along it's bottom outer edge, to act as a drip lip(keeps the water off the porous concrete).

Use the flashing to keep the water from behind the ledger, where the sun don't shine.
And put tar paper between ledger/concrete, as concrete will suck the water washing the ledger face.

Be safe, G
 
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