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Cut in Center Beam

9K views 27 replies 11 participants last post by  gregzoll 
#1 ·
This is a great site, any input here is very much appreciated!!
We are looking at purchasing a new 2-story home.
The basement center beam has a 3 foot cut in the middle of it to make headroom for the stairwell to the basement. The cut ends of the beam are supported by stacked 2x4's that go straight to another 2x4 laying flat on concrete floor. We are not sure if there are footings in the floor to support this, is there any way to know?
Is this common for builders to do?
It seems to be more common on cheaper, 2-story new contruction.
Does this pass city inspection regularly?

Thanks for any knowledge!
 
#3 ·
AtlanticWBConst. is right, structural beams are put in as support. They have to comply with building code, in other words span dictates the minimum size of the beam. If this home has a cut beam then it's below the minimum requirement for supporting that span and therfore illegal.
Like AtlanticWBConst. says, what all else has ben butchered in this home. If ya luv it then have a full house inspection with emphasis on him/her looking for structural changes. If there is more than this then run.....look for another home to buy.
 
#5 ·
Just because a home is only 2 years old...still means squat. Builders and engineers make mistakes on a very consistant basis....(new, or newer, does not guarantee correct)

However, I do understand the point you are making: If it is a new home, then the possibility of this being an approved design change with an engineer approval stamp, and town approval, are more likely possible.

At this point, the OP should check with the local code enforcement office (Building Inspector) and find out if this is something that was/is structurally acceptable.

Simply based on the OP's original description: I'd still be seriously ALARMED.
 
#6 ·
The way i read this and bondo(not that i am reading this right) is a beam butts up to the left side of the stairs and another beam butts up to the right side of the stair opening. -[]- the parenthesis are the stair opening and the dashes are the beams. I have seen this in houses were the beam meets the stair opening. They usually double up the joists on each side of the stairs and build a 2x4 support to the concrete floor. Maybe the OP will share more info.
 
#7 ·
Yup, maybe I'm reading it wrong too.....there's a difference between "the beam has a 3' cut in it" OR "I see is 2 Load Bearing Beams, that meet at the Staircase"

Working on the OP's interpretation.......it's a cut and not a space....Ryno10550, can you clarify, are we looking at a beam that has a cut in it or are we looking at two separate beams....??....give us more description or post a photo.

Mostly, the center beam here has to remain intact, you want stairs then you build on either side of that beam, not through the beam. Same reason you can't pipe through joists in many cases, it's a structural compromise.
 
#8 ·
We are looking at purchasing a new 2-story home.
The basement center beam has a 3 foot cut in the middle of it to make headroom for the stairwell to the basement.
Can you post a photo of this beam and the cut?

If you decide that you want this house then make sure that you have a home inspection and have this checked. If the beam needs to be replaced then have the seller cover the costs, properly repair it with a code inspection or reduce the sale price of the home.
 
#9 ·
Thanks for the replies everyone, apologize for the confusion on my original post. This is in fact 2 separate load bearing beams that meet at the staircase. Problem is, it looks like this wasn't planned, these were just cut off. We have seen other homes where it looks planned.
We are in the process of getting an inspector, and also talking with the city. We probably need the builder to provide the building plans to us so we can see the specs for footings (really really really hoping there are footings where the 2x4's meet the floor).
Here is a link to a few pics of this situation. It's a brand new home. Hope this helps...
http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow.jsp?mode=fromshare&Uc=19l6hr6y.5tfkyyky&Uy=bfnfjc&Ux=0
 
#11 ·
There is a staircase coming from the main floor to a landing, then u-turn, and proceed down the next stair case to the basement floor. Do these pictures of the 2 beams appear to be something structurally sound? As long as there are footings where the 2x4's meet the concrete?
 
#12 ·
Looks like they tried to eliminate support colums with the laminated beam. Is it a development where you can compare with a neighboring house? Are the ends of the beam resting on the foundation? The one the person is leaning against looks like a wall. I think theres even electrical there.

I would definately call in an engineer or inspector. Are there any signs on he floor that might indicate there were steel columns before?
 
#14 ·
Get a look at the prints to make sure if there's footings under all three of those point loads. It looks like there's headers above the beams for the stairwell, so it looks okay, but the engineered beams are not nailed together to proper specs by any means. There are specific nailing patterns for these beams (3-5 nails 12" or 16" OC) and I saw 6 nails in about 10 feet.
 
#16 ·
The owner of the company that built the home confirmed that there are 30x30x12 footings under those 3 beam points in the basement. He is faxing me the building plans today. Also stressed that the city inspects the basement during this phase before framing the house. We are having a home inspector go through the entire property tomorrow as well. Is there anything else that we can be doing? :(
 
#18 ·
You're ahead of the game, Ryno10550. Most HO don't do the due diligence that needs to be done. IMO, I'd have the roof checked by a competent roofer, even if it's new, and check the grading as well. Making sure a home isn't taking in water to any degree will save $$$ and headaches.
 
#19 ·
Photos show a slightly different story, seeing those doesn't make me think there's anything illegal and that type of thing I've seen before, not often cos mostly steel beams here. The support at the top of the stairwell indicates that part of the floor is being supported. Agree with pavola on lack of fixin's but this doesn't look like a butcher job, it was built to plan.
 
#20 ·
Thanks again, everyone, for your input. The structure passed a certified ASHI inspection this morning. And we had the city inspector look at it again, and he was favorable with the design.
We did however notice that the plans called for steel posts rather than those stacked 2x4 supports to the footings. Should we have the builder install steel posts to reinforce it?
 
#21 ·
That's your call, the plans call for it, the inspector passed the current design with the wooden posts. Maybe ask the builder if he would do it for your piece of mind. If he argues the structure passed, cut a deal, ask if he would install if you provided the posts...:)
 
#22 ·
Should we have the steel columns actually replace the 2x4's or have the steel columns put right next to the 2x4's as reinforcement? The footings are 36"x36"x12". The city inspector said he is done with the approval, and any changes done by us or the builder at this point would be up to us to deal with.
 
#23 ·
Should we have the steel columns actually replace the 2x4's or have the steel columns put right next to the 2x4's as reinforcement? The footings are 36"x36"x12". The city inspector said he is done with the approval, and any changes done by us or the builder at this point would be up to us to deal with.
It's a pity the builder used the 2 x 4's instead of the posts, those would have given you peace of mind. Adding them to what you already have is "overkill". The structure has passed, the builder did no wrong other than NOT to place steel posts in the right place. He'd need to "block" beside the existing, lift slightly, pull the timber out and fit the post. It's not a five minute operation. Again, I would have a very friendly chat to the builder and make a very friendly request. Offer to buy the posts if he's prepared to supply the labor, that may be the only way to resolve this.
I, as a contractor, would have installed to plan, you do have the one saving argument there. Good luck.
 
#24 ·
You can add the steel post yourself next to the 2x4 post. They are not that expensive and pretty easy to put in yourself. If you are going to have peace of mind with the steel posts in place then just do it yourself or see if the builder will place them next to the 2x4 posts. You don't need to remove the wood posts and replace with steel posts, putting the steel posts next to the wood ones will be fine.
 
#25 ·
If the plans called for steel posts then the inspector should have failed the inspection. You should go back to the architect/structural engineer that speced that portion of the design, show them the pictures, & get their opinion.

Depending on the load conditions, the 2X4 supports may not be appropriate, especially the one where there are only 3-2X4s supporting 3 LVLs.

I would also check to see if bolts are required for connecting the 3 LVLs together and/or the jack studs supporting the LVLs.

If you are planning on finishing off that space then adding the steel posts will not allow flush walls.
 
#27 ·
These guys are right, I was wrong. I did replace two steel posts recently in a basement and worked fine for me and needed to do it because of the way the walls were to be structured, but it's a risk, what these folks are suggesting is no risk, the better way to go.
Merry Christmas folks...)
 
#28 ·
It appears that the beams are sitting on Jack Studs, with a King Stud attached to the Top Plate. As long as everything is secure, in theory, the current setup should work. Now, depending on the load, and what the Structurial Engineer said, especially if not proper, the builder would have to fix.
 
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