[dbrown_rn]

Hi everyone,
I live in Northern Ohio. 120 year old post and beam house built on Sandstone foundation( large Quarry in the area). Half the house has a cellar, and the other half is crawl space. The existing piers in the crawl space are tipping and I want to replace. Since the crawl space is not exposed to frost, do I still need to dig footers for the new piers below the frostline? Also, any recommendations on new piers, I am stuck between large diameter sonotube, concrete block, or schedule 80 industrial steel piping that I can get from a friend (I am a certified welder). I should add that I highly doubt there is any footer under the existing piers, and the piers themselves are blocks of sandstone with some mortar in between stacked on each other. Thanks!

 

[Windows on Wash]

Sonotube is probably easiest of that three given the space constraints. Be sure to flare out the bottom for bell shape.

 

[joecaption]

How high do they need to be?
Any footings I've done like that where done with a 24 X 24" X 8" deep concrete footings with 1/2 rebar in the middle of the pore then concrete block.

 

[Canarywood1]

I agree with joe, be pretty hard if not impossible to bell the footing for a sonotube in a crawl space.

 

[joecaption]

And how would you even fill it with concrete?
Pictures would be great.

 

[dbrown_rn]

Thanks for the feedback so far. To clarify, the current rough distance from the surface of the crawl space to the bottom of the wood beams is 3 feet. This is for a kitchen remodel and I am gutting down to the framing, so I will be able to stand and dig the crawl space. As far as using sonotube, I have seen plastic casts that attach to the base of the tube to create a one piece footing. Search "Bigfoot" on the web. If I do not need to go that deep, I would prefer the 24"x24" square with block built in top.

 

[Canarywood1]

Thanks for the feedback so far. To clarify, the current rough distance from the surface of the crawl space to the bottom of the wood beams is 3 feet. This is for a kitchen remodel and I am gutting down to the framing, so I will be able to stand and dig the crawl space. As far as using sonotube, I have seen plastic casts that attach to the base of the tube to create a one piece footing. Search "Bigfoot" on the web. If I do not need to go that deep, I would prefer the 24"x24" square with block built in top.

The trouble with that is the hole for the bell needs to be much bigger than the sonotube.

 

[carpdad]

If the cellar and the crawl space are connected, and both remain above freezing, then you don't have to dig below the frost line. Water heater, boiler, heat from above, tend to keep the basements warmer, but you must close all vents.
Since everything is open, it would be a good time to install vapor barrier - plastic on the earth and foundation and sealing the joints. I found a company that resells billboard plastic tarps. Search. It could be a cheap source for large sheets. Any tears, tape over.

 

[Daniel Holzman]

As a rule, you need to install your footings in accordance with state and local building code. Your building inspector should be happy to discuss the requirements with you. Even if you do not need a permit, it would be good to discuss the project with your building inspector, as local practices vary, and depend on frost depth, groundwater level, soil conditions, and type of footing, and your building inspector should be able to help you understand the options, and select the best alternative.

 

[BrandonM]

I would look into using a "SmartJack" system. You would only need to dig out a 2 foot cube of soil and fill with concrete. Then a concrete base is placed and leveled on top above grade. A galvanized steel column is cut to height of the girder and tightened using the SmartJack.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

I would look into using a "SmartJack" system. You would only need to dig out a 2 foot cube of soil and fill with concrete. Then a concrete base is placed and leveled on top above grade. A galvanized steel column is cut to height of the girder and tightened using the SmartJack.

To my knowledge the SmartJack "system" (read $$$$) is only installed by "specialists" (read "more $$$$"). The jacks look great but as far as I am aware you can't buy them in stores. Pretty much anything of that ilk sold is only for supplemental support.

I've got a similar crawlspace with similar issues, though I really don't have existing piers except for a few dozen random cinder blocks and sewer pipe filled with concrete. Mean "floor" level is about 3 ft below the floor joists. I'm looking at SquareFoot SF28s with the bottom on undisturbed soil 4 ft below the joists, 10" sonotube on top to bring the level upper surface 8" above the soil level, then embedded concrete connector to 6" posts.

I'm working on the cribbing schedule now. It is a pain to get these SquareFoots or Bigfoots in because they are so wide and you have to keep them clear of 45 degrees from the bottom of existing supports to avoid undermining. I'll have to dig down, install cribbing, dig down deeper adjacent to this cribbing, install more cribbing, then my cribbing will be deep enough where I won't undermine it when I dig for the footings.

I totally can't wait to do all this digging. :icon_rolleyes:

 

[Canarywood1]

Yeah you pretty much have to have an open cut trench, to be able to use that type of pier.

 

[Bondo]

or schedule 80 industrial steel piping that I can get from a friend (I am a certified welder).

Ayuh,.... Weld some big feet/ a big foot to the bottom of the pipes with scrap outa the drop bin, 'n use 'em,....

What diameter pipe,..??

Dig out where it's goin' to virgin soil, 'n set it in, set to plumb, 'n set the house back down on it,...
Under the heated house, no reason to go to frost depths,...

In a dry crawl space, they'll be there, Forever,...