[onemeek]

We hired an unexperienced, but licensed contractor (GC) in California to do a remodel for us. He talked the good talk and we saw a couple of his jobs and they were good. The problem is that we were dazzled by his kitchen cabinets and granite and that's all he really has knowledge about. We signed a contract and got into the remodel. He started making some major blunders, but the crowning blow was when we realized that he had no idea how to drywall. He was spraying adhesive on the walls and just sticking the drywall tape on without mud. It was horrible. We had other highly recommended subs come in and they were shocked. They repaired - had to rip it all off and start over with tape and mudding. The contractor won't even admit that he did the drywall job wrong and says he legally has three chances to correct it. Well - he has now taken all of his equipment off of our property and basically abandoned the job.
Here's my concern. We've paid this guy $11,000.00 - and he has not done enough work to warrant that. He demolished our kitchen and bathroom had a sub do all of the electrical for the kitchen. We brought in our own plumber. Now the GC wants $2000.00 to walk away from the contract. Our house is a mess! We are bringing in subs one by one to fix problems and make progress. We were going to let him come back and put our cabinets and granite in - but he won't even send an amended or new contract as he has been promising. I think it is a mistake to give him any further chance. Yes - I think we will have to see an attorney, but, we have a large contract - he has not fulfilled it and we have not paid in full. I do not want to give him any more money - but will bet he will try to file a lien on our home. Thanks for any advice.

 

[II Weeks]

you sound like a fun guy to work for bringing in other subs during a job but gluing on tape, thats a first.

We've paid this guy $11,000.00 - and he has not done enough work to warrant that. He demolished our kitchen and bathroom had a sub do all of the electrical for the kitchen.

hes not too far off from earning that much. I bet the lic.,insured electrician took a big chunk of that.

 

[Ron6519]

The relationship is over. It would be a mistake to bring him back .
Get a lawyer's advice.
Ron

 

[Termite]

Never never never pay before the work is done. Payments should be based on degree of completion and a payment schedule should be set ahead of time if warranted.

I just got a re-roof bids, and my lowest bid wanted a 50% down payment before work started. He was $2000 cheaper than the second lowest bid. His bid went in the trash can, and he's someone I've known for years. If they need a dime up front on a 3 day job then the company lacks the financial fortitude to secure the necessary credit to buy materials.

 

[II Weeks]

If they need a dime up front on a 3 day job then the company lacks the financial fortitude to secure the necessary credit to buy materials. __________________

ha ...

 

[Scuba_Dave]

When you find out you have hired an idiot, contract over
And when someone lies about their abilities their reputation is gone
Document with pictures the flaws & sub-standard work
I didn't pay one dime for $3k of plumbing work until material was on-site
If the Pro doesn't have terms with his suppliers (IE they don't trust him to pay) then I'm not trusting him to work on my house

 

[wrangler]

Never never never pay before the work is done. Payments should be based on degree of completion and a payment schedule should be set ahead of time if warranted.

I just got a re-roof bids, and my lowest bid wanted a 50% down payment before work started. He was $2000 cheaper than the second lowest bid. His bid went in the trash can, and he's someone I've known for years. If they need a dime up front on a 3 day job then the company lacks the financial fortitude to secure the necessary credit to buy materials.

That really depends on the job. I work alot in an industry that requires 50% down, mainly to cover the special order materials. Granted, in many GC type jobs, it is done in thirds, 1/3 up front, 2nd third after much of the work is done, with the final third due upon completion. But, that doesn't mean each job or contract is the same.

I feel for the OP(original poster) that there is a sense of wrong-doing, but I do think that he (the contractor) should be given the chance to make it right,,, sometimes there is not a meeting of the minds as to what was supposed to be done in the first place. That is what the contract is for.
If the GC does not satisfy the contract or yourself, then you need to take action. It is his license on the line, as well as his reputation.

 

[fmeijler]

Corner bead you can glue with special 3m adhesive.
Tape you can glue with adhesive, depends on the type of tape.
I'd given him a 2nd chance at least.
I know i am a pro and a good one too, so possibly this guy is NOT so bad.

 

[pmoe]

If they need a dime up front on a 3 day job then the company lacks the financial fortitude to secure the necessary credit to buy materials.

I had a contractor tell me this exact thing a few months ago.

A few weeks after that, he asked me for 50% up front. :no:

He did not get the job.

 

[II Weeks]

I didn't pay one dime for $3k of plumbing work until material was on-site
If the Pro doesn't have terms with his suppliers (IE they don't trust him to pay) then I'm not trusting him to work on my house

thats nuts!

 

[jomama45]

Obviously, some on here have never worked on a new residence that's financed. When the bank is involved (at least in my region) there is no thing as a down payment.

 

[II Weeks]

Obviously

 

[II Weeks]

.....

 

[Baron]

We border with a licensed state and a non licensed state and a running joke around here is the unlicensed guys are always fixing what the licensed guys screw ups.

Reputation and honor outdo licensing every time.
Try not to use licensing as as assurance of quality as it isn't. It just means the state has required a license to go to work, not honesty or integrity.

Get a lawyer.
The legal system is their to resolve these things.

 

[windowguy]

i like this banter about how much has to be paid upfront (or in installments) . i'm not in the business but have had a lot of work done to my places and i thought i had a comfortable sense of the payment process on last 6 figure job i had done. 10% deposit, 25% after demo, 25% when framing done, 25% after electrical rough done. I thought that sounded reasonable until i discovered that demo and framing were basically done in 4 days. The rest of the job took over 2 months. (heating, plumbing, insulation, sheetrock..etc)

So i had given 60% of the job in the first week, 85% 3 weeks after that. My last 15% holdback seemed like nothing considering how much work was still left to be done.

So although you THINK you might be getting a payment plan that protects you in the long run you always wind up paying a ton upfront.. so i can sympathize with the $11k output for the kitchen.

 

[Scuba_Dave]

I didn't pay one dime for $3k of plumbing work until material was on-site
If the Pro doesn't have terms with his suppliers (IE they don't trust him to pay) then I'm not trusting him to work on my house

thats nuts!

Not nuts at all
I'm not in the habit of paying for something that hasn't been delivered. I have 6 months in terms with suppliers & I'm only working on my OWN house!!

Most of this was labor. the largest expense was the shower setup
1st day of work he received a check for $1k. It was suypposed to be a $1500 job but as always there were more things to fix once I opened a wall
So 1st day of work he received 66% of total arranged payment

 

[Baron]

Since the 80's I always get money upfront due to the cost of materials and customer fraud that has increased since those days.

I have had more close calls with customers being dishonest than I have ever been involved in or seen first hand the other way around. That wasn't always true back when people had dignity and pride.

I had a customer once that had measure and bought the wrong size windows for their house twice, try to get away with not paying me for the correct windows because they thought they had already spent enough on windows. It wasn't my job originally and I was recommended because of my integrity and would actually correct the mess.

I hadn't taken the windows off the truck, and I was glad to leave that job with no money down and no money for the windows I bought.

Good thing I needed windows on another job that wasn't yet decided and we were able to use the windows I was stiffed for on that job.

I did do a shingle repair for a customer who gave no deposit and against my better judgment installed on a frigid late fall day 5 squares of white cedar shingles to finish some one else's job. They never paid. Never complained either, just kept hanging up on me and not answering the door when I came by.

Also I replaced some trim on a house that they were supposed to give me the material costs for on the day I arrived. They didn't. I did the job anyway and they still haven't paid me claiming I didn't paint the wood. So I sent them a copy of the contract that they signed that says I would prime the wood in preparation for painting.
They refused to pay because they think that the contract "Should" have included painting. I was on the impression I was doing what I agreed to do, not what they thought I was to do. They took 5 months and finally sent me the material costs but nothing for the three days labor as they think I should paint all the work anyway even though its not in the contract.
For free mind you. I don't trust them enough to bother at this point.

I have a lot more stories but I think you can get the picture. I get deposits and set up a payment schedule because of what people have become.

So don't boast of knowledge you don't have about the way things should be. The world we are developing demands a deposit, but I will suggest you enter into contracts that give you some financial control too as a protection and limitation to your investment and risks.

Here is an even funnier one. I had a very old lady claim she already paid me. Even when it was the first time I was presenting my bill to her. It was a small enough job and I wasn't going to win the argument, she wasn't budging.

 

[joasis]

I will give you guys an example of "pay in advance".....when a customer contracts a metal roof from me, guess what? I collect the full price for materials, or he can find someone else...simply because it is ordered cut to length, and trim to match.....now why would I invest my money in a customer's roof?

I tell this this up front, and that is the way it is. I have had a few tell me they won't pay the material charge, and I tell them to get someone else.

The flip side is we do not collect any labor until the job is complete.

As to other jobs....if the material is typical....or not custom ordered, like a metal roof....then by all means, no up front money.

 

[Mop in Hand]

Does the contract say he has 3 chanes to correct it. I doubt it. However it may say (or should say) that the work shall be timely and "professional manner". I believe that professional is the key word here. My brother has been professional drywaller for over 30 years and has NEVER glued on drywall tape. Nor have I for that matter. If it were me, I would not invite this person back into my house or pay him any more money. He needs to practice on somebody else's house beside yours. I remodel kitchens and baths for a living and do not ask for money down for any of my projects, although I do ask the homeowner to pay for the cabinets when they are ordered, and normally they pay the cabinet folks themselfs. I usually get draws as I go along, with most of the money due me at the end of the job. I have not advertised in over 3 years, my business comes from repeat customers and word of mouth.

 

[pmoe]

Does the contract say he has 3 chanes to correct it. I doubt it.

If it requires three chances to get things right, what is your confidence level in this contractor? And what is your time and the hassle of repeat visits worth?

I'm in this boat myself - I paid for rough-in plumbing for 3 fixtures, adding a PRV and expansion tank, and adding a hose bibb. The plumbers have made a total of 10 trips (I think) on this job. They pitched the toilet line back toward the fixture - had to come out, cut it out, and fix it. Screwed the toilet flange to the subfloor - had come back, cut it out, and fix it. Oriented my freezeless hose bibb horizontally instead of vertically - had to fix that. Didn't center the lav drain line between the supply lines - ditto. Had a leaking stop and waste valve - cut it out and replaced it with a regular ball valve - then came back and cut the ball valve out and replaced it with a stop and waste valve. Then I found out the hot and cold lines to the hose bibb were hooked up backwards - another trip, more stuff cut out.

So after all this, I have no confidence in the quality of the rest of the work and I'm afraid I'll be back in the crawlspace in a few months with another "surprise." 3 chances? No thanks.