[Oswald]

I have a couple of old aluminum runs in my house. I'm getting ready to add a light in my attic over the garage (1967 house, no light was ever installed) and the garage is wired aluminum.

I'm going to be running the line from a current light fixture that is wired aluminum with a copper line. I did some research and found AL/CU wire connectors (http://www.idealindustries.com/products/wire_termination/twist-on/twister_al-cu.jsp) and was wondering if anyone had any experience with them. They are expensive as hell, I can tell you that .. $23 for a bag of 10

I also plan on using a special compound on the wires to help reduce oxidization (can't remember the name of it)

 

[BigJimmy]

They are expensive as hell, I can tell you that .. $23 for a bag of 10

I also plan on using a special compound on the wires to help reduce oxidization (can't remember the name of it)

$23 to avoid the possibility of burning down your garage (and house if it is attached)? Jesus, it sounds like cheap insurance to me. And if it was me, I'd actually connect some copper pigtails with Copalum splices (wanna talk expensive?). No wait...if it was my house, I'd remove the aluminum altogether. But alas, that is just old, anal meself talking.

Don't bother with the compound if you use these connectors. They are preloaded with it.

Jim

 

[Chemist1961]

Oswald, I live in Canada and use MARR connectors rated co/alr a box is about 7.00 Our codes may be different and I use gel on every connection.
My understanding is the IDEAL units are a gel connector so it's not a bad price.
I have also experienced an improper receptacle overheating due to Aluminium and have since reviewed and inspected the entire house replacing all original connectors and using paste as well.
$23 is GOOD Value compared to firetrucks in the street and a safety inspection.....Been There... saved the receptacle:laughing:

 

[220/221]

It's a scam.

The "listed" wire nuts will not prevent problems with AL wiring.

The fact is that they are made out of the same materials as regular wire nuts and have a dab of antioxident in them.

It is an insurance issue but not in the way you are presenting it. They will not gaurantee that the wiring won't burn but the 4 bucks a pop go into paying for liability insurance for the companys that make the connectors.

Generally, the problems with AL splices come from connections that are not tight enough. Sometimes the wiring will burn even with a tight connection.

Below is a pic of of a good tight splice AL/copper splice that failed. I broke off the wirenut and peeled back the spring to get a close look at where the problem was originating. The insulation was burned badly from the wirenut to appx 4" back on the wire. They likely used an iron on this pigtailed laundry room recep.

It looks to me that the problem wasn't in the connection. What IS interesting is that the copper wire looks worse than the AL wire.

Al repairs/additions are a gamble because
1. The two approved methods will not gaurantee safety.
2. There are millions of splices/pigtails that function perfectly.

Use your best judgement but the only way to be 100% safe is to eliminate the AL wiring.




Do the best you can to make a sound connection and make sure it is done in a properly closed in junction box.

 

[rgsgww]

Better yet use alumicon connectors. Expensive ($35 USD for a 10 pack).

 

[InPhase277]

For small gauge stuff, you have got to get the aluminum free from that dull oxidation before applying paste and making the connection. A quick once-over with some fine sand paper before applying the noalox is the key. It's the oxidized surface that makes the poor connection, and when current flows through it in the presence of oxygen, it just gets worse. I personally won't touch the stuff.

Even on the large gauge aluminum service conductors, I take a battery terminal brush to them before I connect them.

 

[hayewe farm]

Although oxidation is a problem with Al wiring another is the rate of expansion and contraction difference between copper and aluminum. Because of this a twisted cop/al set of wires work loose from each other. The most viable solution other than replacing the al wire (which is what I would recommend) is to use Alumiconn connectors. The copper and aluminum wires do not come into direct contact with each other. These connectors can also be used to make pigtails in outlet boxes so standard receptacles can be used as C/A receptacles are not always readily available.

 

[Bigplanz]

The only 'approved' repair method, according to the CPSC can be found in this document:

[URL]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cpsc.gov%2FCPSCPUB%2FPUBS%2F516.pdf&ei=KinpSbfXNZixtgeou6nOBQ&usg=AFQjCNGoBeydaHTESb2C1bhsM3Y_JF0zzA

[/URL]

 

[Jim Port]

Just a quick note that the Alumiconn require a torque screwdriver in order to be installed properly.

 

[Scott3229]

You can also use a compound called penetrox. It is generally used for aluminum connections to temp panels and such, but it serves the purpose of creating a safe connection between copper and aluminum without the chemical reactions that can happen over time.

Of course this is me trying to save you money, I would also go with big jimmy and not using aluminum all together.

 

[hayewe farm]

The only 'approved' repair method, according to the CPSC can be found in this document:

[URL]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cpsc.gov%2FCPSCPUB%2FPUBS%2F516.pdf&ei=KinpSbfXNZixtgeou6nOBQ&usg=AFQjCNGoBeydaHTESb2C1bhsM3Y_JF0zzA

[/URL]

That document is 15 years old.

 

[Bigplanz]

That document is 15 years old.

I couldn't find anything more recent. Is it wrong? Is there another approved method? Please provide a link. Thanks.

 

[nap]

You can also use a compound called penetrox. It is generally used for aluminum connections to temp panels and such, but it serves the purpose of creating a safe connection between copper and aluminum without the chemical reactions that can happen over time.

Of course this is me trying to save you money, I would also go with big jimmy and not using aluminum all together.

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

you must use an approved method (actually, it would actually be considered a "system" under UL terms, I believe) for joining aluminum and copper conductors. Merely putting penetrox is not legally or engineering approved.

Do it right or don't do it.

 

[220/221]

it serves the purpose of creating a safe connection between copper and aluminum

No true.

It may give you a warm fuzzy feeling but does nothing practical to create a safe connection.

AL NM is a crap shoot. The odds are with you. The good splices far outnumber the bad ones. I've spliced a crapload of AL to CU and will continue to do so.

 

[Scott3229]

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

you must use an approved method (actually, it would actually be considered a "system" under UL terms, I believe) for joining aluminum and copper conductors. Merely putting penetrox is not legally or engineering approved.

Do it right or don't do it.

Im not saying its the way to do it if you read the whole comment, because by the do it right or dont do it philosophy, you would pull the aluminum out and replace it with copper, aluminum is for temp these days, i was merely saying it would be a chincy alternative money saver which i do NOT recommend, but offer as an alternative

 

[Scott3229]

No true.

It may give you a warm fuzzy feeling but does nothing practical to create a safe connection.

AL NM is a crap shoot. The odds are with you. The good splices far outnumber the bad ones. I've spliced a crapload of AL to CU and will continue to do so.

Yes it does. The reason for using penetrox is to stop the chemical reaction between dissimilar metals that ultimately loosen splices and connections to lugs creating heat (hence it is safer than just a wirenut) and unsteady power.. Penetrox virtually emliminates this.

But again ill say with the do it right approach you pull the Al and replace it with CU, aluminum is for temp, its too tempermental in general for its conductivity

 

[hayewe farm]

I couldn't find anything more recent. Is it wrong? Is there another approved method? Please provide a link. Thanks.

http://www.cpsc.gov/LIBRARY/FOIA/meetings/mtg08/Alumwire3_18.pdf

and here's the report they refer to
http://www.alcopstore.com/ReducingFire070706.pdf

A complete revision of pub 516 has been recomended but as with most government agencies not enough time has passed.

 

[nap]

Im not saying its the way to do it if you read the whole comment, because by the do it right or dont do it philosophy, you would pull the aluminum out and replace it with copper, aluminum is for temp these days, i was merely saying it would be a chincy alternative money saver which i do NOT recommend, but offer as an alternative

that is not what you said

You can also use a compound called penetrox. It is generally used for aluminum connections to temp panels and such, but it serves the purpose of creating a safe connection between copper and aluminum without the chemical reactions that can happen over time.

You CANNOT use the compound for the purpose you state. It is not intended nor approved to create a safe connections between the al and the cu.

and you even repeat it here:

Yes it does. The reason for using penetrox is to stop the chemical reaction between dissimilar metals that ultimately loosen splices and connections to lugs creating heat (hence it is safer than just a wirenut) and unsteady power.. Penetrox virtually emliminates this.

this is not a legally acceptable method and you should stop inferring it is.

and aluminum for temp? I'm working on a >600,000 square foot hospital and all the feeders in the builidng are aluminum. I hope they don't find out that al is for temp installs.

 

[czars]

The alumiconn connectors are the best solution that I have found for connecting aluminum and copper wires. However, the terminal screws must be properly torqued. In addition, the connectors are specified by the manufacturer for use with solid wire only. The manufacturer has identified the proper torque limits and has also provided torquing instructions for those without a torque screwdriver: after the screw makes contact with the wire, turn the screw 1 full turn for #10 & #12 aluminum and 1/2 turn for #18 - #10 solid copper wires.

 

[Bigplanz]

http://www.cpsc.gov/LIBRARY/FOIA/meetings/mtg08/Alumwire3_18.pdf

and here's the report they refer to
http://www.alcopstore.com/ReducingFire070706.pdf

A complete revision of pub 516 has been recomended but as with most government agencies not enough time has passed.

Thanks! I liked the source article. Very interesting reading. So, there are actually two approved methods. Good to know!