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concrete coping not on right

1482 Views 7 Replies 3 Participants Last post by  rocky30459
Hello all and sorry for the very long post. Don't want to read..the bottom line would be.. is there adequate coverage on these [removed] pool copings. I say at bottom..looking for pro input.

If I am I wrong..I need to know. work is commencing soon.pool needs to be ready for Summer.
I had in-ground pool coping [ precast-cement] installed on a cement footing that was done very slowly by hand in the winter [2014] when it got down below 20 degrees for more than a few nights. It was done by hand and there are no expansion joints at all and longest side is in 30 ft. When done for the [short] day they packed up and came back whenever to continue is by no means monolithic.

I have no idea if during the curing process when the temps dropped to 18 degrees F some type of film could have risen to the top and froze or something. Then the coping was installed on top of this 4 months later with no prep..

The footings are very hard. My real problem is with the coping installation. The coping was not back buttered or moistened before installation. The moisture content of the coping was not taken.The mortar was not loose as the coping is heavy and had to stay put.

All the coping was installed then we had to remove a 40 ft section of the footing to fix both skimmers and leaky plumbing...the coping was taken off by mason chisel. Not one piece was broken in the process. A few had very little mortar stuck on the back, most had none.Some had to have just popped off..The mortar used was NOT latex modified adhesive mortar just plain water was used to mix plain mortar

I have had my Consumer protection agency out to look and they see no problem. I have NEVER seen worse coverage in my life. I am nothing short of bewildered. at their conclusion. They are not about to do a lot of testing either..

The one guy, maybe an installation crew chief,who they brought out to test the coping tapped on a few pieces that were still down and declared them OK. He also looked at the coping with no mortar on the back and agreed it was fine based mostly on his tapping test I imagine

. I do not dispute they are on-maybe even stuck-however slight that may be..I say they are not really bonded as they should be--not if all that is on the back of the coping upon removal is a white film that is absorbed into the coping.

I live in the Northeast where under normal conditions there is plenty of freeze thaw going on. Last winter was the exception. I barely needed a coat 90% of the time.

On most of the coping there is no mortar stuck to the sides of the coping where the joint was filled with same mortar. some do have it. if some why not all

1] It should not have been so easy to get the coping off and that there should be 100% or thereabouts coverage remaining on the back of the coping. If I had put it down we would be looking at ALL broken coping as opposed to none. The one's that have no mortar on the back have just a white film that if you closed your eyes and ran you hand over it would not know anything was there.It is almost liker the coping is stained

2] within reason-- every piece should have the same coverage and when so many have none it is best to redo them all.

It should be noted that EVERYTHING this contractor did was wrong.That is the only thing not in dispute.

Once all the repairs are made the contractor wants a signed release. If the coping issue is not fixed I will have a problem doing that. The protection agency could toss the case and I am back to square one--court--where I will win but at what cost..I will not need a lawyer for this one as the contractor has already agreed all the work is crapola

Hope this image helps-It is not doctored in any way except I had to wet it too make it clear-one has 25% coverage in red square and one has none like most of them.

dry showing nothing but color where mortar should be
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Too long to read. If the work was done during the Winter, below the ideal temperature for the product that was used to attach the coping, the company doing the work, should have known better.

There is a reason why you do not see mason's or pools being done in temps below about 54 degrees.

If you already paid the company for the work, your only choice is taking them to small claims to get them to fix the problem, or pay someone to fix their mistakes.
It is long--this is why i said this upfront. It is very important I get a pros view on the coping. I hope one will find the time in their busy day to read it and reply

"Hello all and sorry for the very long post. Don't want to read..the bottom line would be.. is there adequate coverage on these [removed] pool copings. I say at bottom..looking for pro input.

If I am I wrong..I need to know. work is commencing soon.pool needs to be ready for Summer.


the coping was installed under the right conditions..the footers were not.the footers are very hard.shouldn't there be mortar on the back of the coping? should they come off so easy and clean--see pics it takes 30 seconds
The pictures you provided look like a very desne & smooth fired clay or tile? Where is the precast concrete.

BTW, if we waited for the temperature to rise to 54 degrees, we'd only work about 500 hours a year here. That's complete non-sense........
6x12 bullnose on this page

I will get a better it is

I can assure you that is strictly color..close you eys and run your hand over it and there is nada..there is also no mortar stuck to the other 12" side. Regular mortar not Latex modified thinset..18 degrees is a far cry from 54

thanks for looking
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ntca [National tile council of Americe] has a section where it talks about installing tile on the inside of the pool under the coping. I don't nreed ythat but they go on to say what proper installation of my type of coping a nutshell

Mud set installation:
Apply 1/8” modified thin-set to the bond beam [footer], followed by a mortar bed. The coping should then be back buttered with cement slurry or 1/8” modified thin-set, placed into the mortar bed and tapped into

I might need more than the 1/8 inch but I definitely need the back buttering and the thinset [not reg mortar]. They mention in another part it has to be latex modified thinset Had the coping in the pic been back buttered as it should have been it quite possible would have broke before coming off.
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Actually you want the pool open by Summer, but in this situation, it may not happen, because of the people you hired to do the work, did it sub-standard and at lower temperatures then when you do this kind of work.

As for professionals replying. You do realize that this is a Peer to Peer DIY web forum, not a Pro to customer web forum.

To honestly tell you the truth and it will hurt. You basically got ripped off and screwed by a company or individual who should have known better.

If it was a company contracted through the company that did thr pool. Take them to court and make them fix their mistakes out of their pocket.

You paid good hard earned money to expect good craftsmanship. Instead you got some Hillbilly job.

Everyone knows what the NTCA states. Also you are dealing with a Concrete product, not tile. As for pictures. You have already posted what the pieces lok like. But have posted nothing to show the shoddy workmanship.
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the guy has already paid over $20k for repairs and he ain't done yet. he is balking at removing the rest of the coping and doing it right. I tried to send you a link to a website with all the pics you need to see but you don't accept pm's

Small claims court here maxes out at 3,000. he has at least $10,000 more work to do so not an option. I would have to go to real court. I would not need a lawyer as he has admitted to everything in writing

NTCA covers precast concrete coping in the manual. It specifies backbutter and LM thinset
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