The two murray breakers are correct if your panel is listed for tandem breakers(need more info,preferably a picture of the labels on the door/deadfront) but the GE breaker while not inherently unsafe is technically wrong, and could eventually cause a failure of the bus stab it's connected to.
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Here is a photo, thanks for the advice!
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OK. I called Siemens... The Siemens guy agreed that the MH-T breaker should be fine although it has not been UL approved with my specific panel because the panel is just too old. It would void the warranty if the panel weren't 40+ years old but it should be safe. .
I did replace the mismatched GE breaker with an MP.
My electrician tells me that the newer tandem breakers don't utilize restrictive clips so they can go anywhere in the panel. The Siemens guy said that as long as it fits and I'm not overloading the board it should be fine. My panel is jammed with circuits for electric heat which we don't use anymore so I am sure we're not overloading it. The Siemens guy also tells me that this is not 2 separate 1/2 inch breakers (which were around in the 70s), it is technically a one inch tandem breaker so it is probably just fine.
Here is the thing. I asked my electrician to check out everything in the panel while he was there for the genny because the basement was smelling really funky -- like a dead fish. It seemed to be coming from the panel but I could not be sure. Of course he said everything looked fine, just like the previous electrician told me a month ago.
Before I replaced that GE breaker I heard the breaker for my water heater buzzing a bit. 10 minutes after turning off the main, the water heater breaker was still hot. I disconnected the wires and this picture shows what I found. The insulation on the wire seems nicely toasted. I trimmed the copper back a bit and installed a new breaker.. but I am wondering if I can trust that the wire is safe? The hot water heater is always running and I don't want to burn the house down!
Last night I also found another damned charred wire in the basement. This one was running along a floor joist. It looks like someone damaged it a long time ago with a staple. They removed the wire from the staple (probably by yanking on the wire) and just left both the staple and the wire there, the wire had a small cut and was badly bent. I'm not really sure what I am supposed to do. I peeled away the blackened insulation and charred ground-paper, then electrical-taped the tiny part of the hot wire that was exposed and arcing to the ground wire which now looks sorta oxidized.. Should I be running a new wire there?
Now I am going to vent a little.. sorry in advance. You can stop reading if you like. This is probably the 20th electrical issue I've found since I moved to this house and I'm about to lose it.
I've found inaccessible junction boxes hiding in the walls. If there is a metal box somewhere, I guarantee it is not grounded. I've grounded about 30 of them myself and it is not a fun nor rewarding job. I've found wires that are just nutted together inside of a wall cavity, not in any junction box at all. That is fun. Light fixtures that are screwed in and sit flush against the ceiling without a connection box or any barrier between the drywall and lightbulb, 100 watt bulbs when the maximum is 60... Funky electrical timers tucked away high up in the attic to control a flood light near the top of the roof because the previous owner was too lazy or stupid to install a switch in a place that made sense... Overloaded circuits everywhere. Improperly wired two and three pole switches. No GFCIs on the exterior outlets. Basement lights that just sizzle when you turn them on because the idiot has like 2 inches of exposed wire in there. Here is my favorite... Two pole switches that have been "modified" to become a one way switch for an outlet. Yes folks, when you walk into my kitchen in the dark and try to turn on the lights instead of touching a light switch you're sticking your finger in an outlet! My inlaws love that feature.... the list just goes on and on over here.
I have a young family here. 3 kids, 2 in diapers. I am really worried about the safety of this house.
It is impossible to find someone -- an electrician, a plumber, a carpenter, anyone at all that really cares and wants to do the job right -- use the right parts, look for other issues, etc.. even when I explicitly ask them to do it and say that I am willing to pay for their time.
I did take a residential electric course when I first moved here and luckily have experience with digital electronics so I am somewhat comfortable with these types of repairs, but not this magnitude, everyday something comes up. I'm at the end of my wits and have a day job to focus on. I can't spend all my time on this house. Sigh. Sorry to vent. I think it is time for a beer or something stronger I guess.
If you have any advice, I'm all ears!
Thanks in advance
Chris
I did replace the mismatched GE breaker with an MP.
My electrician tells me that the newer tandem breakers don't utilize restrictive clips so they can go anywhere in the panel. The Siemens guy said that as long as it fits and I'm not overloading the board it should be fine. My panel is jammed with circuits for electric heat which we don't use anymore so I am sure we're not overloading it. The Siemens guy also tells me that this is not 2 separate 1/2 inch breakers (which were around in the 70s), it is technically a one inch tandem breaker so it is probably just fine.
Here is the thing. I asked my electrician to check out everything in the panel while he was there for the genny because the basement was smelling really funky -- like a dead fish. It seemed to be coming from the panel but I could not be sure. Of course he said everything looked fine, just like the previous electrician told me a month ago.
Before I replaced that GE breaker I heard the breaker for my water heater buzzing a bit. 10 minutes after turning off the main, the water heater breaker was still hot. I disconnected the wires and this picture shows what I found. The insulation on the wire seems nicely toasted. I trimmed the copper back a bit and installed a new breaker.. but I am wondering if I can trust that the wire is safe? The hot water heater is always running and I don't want to burn the house down!
Last night I also found another damned charred wire in the basement. This one was running along a floor joist. It looks like someone damaged it a long time ago with a staple. They removed the wire from the staple (probably by yanking on the wire) and just left both the staple and the wire there, the wire had a small cut and was badly bent. I'm not really sure what I am supposed to do. I peeled away the blackened insulation and charred ground-paper, then electrical-taped the tiny part of the hot wire that was exposed and arcing to the ground wire which now looks sorta oxidized.. Should I be running a new wire there?
Now I am going to vent a little.. sorry in advance. You can stop reading if you like. This is probably the 20th electrical issue I've found since I moved to this house and I'm about to lose it.
I've found inaccessible junction boxes hiding in the walls. If there is a metal box somewhere, I guarantee it is not grounded. I've grounded about 30 of them myself and it is not a fun nor rewarding job. I've found wires that are just nutted together inside of a wall cavity, not in any junction box at all. That is fun. Light fixtures that are screwed in and sit flush against the ceiling without a connection box or any barrier between the drywall and lightbulb, 100 watt bulbs when the maximum is 60... Funky electrical timers tucked away high up in the attic to control a flood light near the top of the roof because the previous owner was too lazy or stupid to install a switch in a place that made sense... Overloaded circuits everywhere. Improperly wired two and three pole switches. No GFCIs on the exterior outlets. Basement lights that just sizzle when you turn them on because the idiot has like 2 inches of exposed wire in there. Here is my favorite... Two pole switches that have been "modified" to become a one way switch for an outlet. Yes folks, when you walk into my kitchen in the dark and try to turn on the lights instead of touching a light switch you're sticking your finger in an outlet! My inlaws love that feature.... the list just goes on and on over here.
I have a young family here. 3 kids, 2 in diapers. I am really worried about the safety of this house.
It is impossible to find someone -- an electrician, a plumber, a carpenter, anyone at all that really cares and wants to do the job right -- use the right parts, look for other issues, etc.. even when I explicitly ask them to do it and say that I am willing to pay for their time.
I did take a residential electric course when I first moved here and luckily have experience with digital electronics so I am somewhat comfortable with these types of repairs, but not this magnitude, everyday something comes up. I'm at the end of my wits and have a day job to focus on. I can't spend all my time on this house. Sigh. Sorry to vent. I think it is time for a beer or something stronger I guess.
If you have any advice, I'm all ears!
Thanks in advance
Chris
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