Changed the filter, now the oil has stopped flowing.

287 Views 13 Replies 2 Participants Last post by yuri, 2 d ago

VitaminC

Discussion Starter · 13 d ago

I initially turned the red handled valve at the bottom (very slightly) thinking it was the silver handled valve (not even sure what the red valve controls).

I closed the silver handled valve (at the top) by turning it clockwise, which actually loosened the handle, but apparently closes the valve, the handle was barely hanging on.

Changed the filer, reattached, opened the valve and nothing was coming out of the bleed screw on top of the filter housing.

Took everything apart and confirmed that the oil flow had stopped.

Just to be sure, I opened the red handled valve by turning it counter clockwise as far as it would go, like a normal valve.

Made sure the top valve was open and still nothing...

Any suggestions?

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yuri

· #2 · 13 d ago

Red handle one is the oil return line. You have a check valve B4 the other valve and maybe it is stuck closed. Try tap it from the bottom up continuously while you slowly open the silver valve. Is the tank full or have a lot of oil in it? If it is low maybe there is not enough pressure to lift or swing the check valve open.

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VitaminC

Discussion Starter · #3 · 13 d ago

yuri said:
Red handle one is the oil return line. You have a check valve B4 the other valve and maybe it is stuck closed. Try tap it from the bottom up continuously while you slowly open the silver valve. Is the tank full or have a lot of oil in it? If it is low maybe there is not enough pressure to lift or swing the check valve open.

Hey, thanks for your reply.

I'm assuming the red handled valve on the return line should be open, or turned counter clockwise as far as possible?

Is the pic below of the check valve?

I removed what I thought was a bleeder screw to see if oil was atleast getting to that point but this is all I saw.

What would you suggest someone use to tap the bottom, maybe a screw driver handle?

I'll go ahead and order some oil, I think it may be on the low side.

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yuri

· #4 · 13 d ago

You could try a big plastic screwdriver handle first and then a metal hammer second. You need some " head pressure" water column of oil to create some flow and if your tank is low then that may be a issue. Think of Niagra falls and the water pressure at the bottom of it or a Hydro electric dam. You need a vertical column of water/oil pressure to create some flow.

The red valve should be open. I would expect to see a black hole with that bleeder screw open. Pretty sure if you fill the tank and rap on that check valve it should flow.

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VitaminC

Discussion Starter · #5 · 9 d ago

yuri said:
You could try a big plastic screwdriver handle first and then a metal hammer second. You need some " head pressure" water column of oil to create some flow and if your tank is low then that may be a issue. Think of Niagra falls and the water pressure at the bottom of it or a Hydro electric dam. You need a vertical column of water/oil pressure to create some flow.

The red valve should be open. I would expect to see a black hole with that bleeder screw open. Pretty sure if you fill the tank and rap on that check valve it should flow.

Past the bleeder screw, there seems to be another brass flap (in the pic above), I may try to push it open with a pen/pin in an attempt to determine whether oil is reaching the check valve.

Just added a 100 gallons, tried what you suggested, tapping up on the check valve from the bottom but wasnt successful.

Will try tapping again, with slightly more force.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

I'm willing to try anything, trial/error etc.

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yuri

· #6 · 9 d ago

It may have a flat disk like a coin which sits on a seat and the oil pushes it up. You could try VERY carefully loosen the top part just a smidge and maybe it is airlocked. Oil should slowly rise out of it. VERY carefully and do not unscrew it more than 1/16th of a turn.

Ideally you want to use a closed end wrench and put pressure on all sides of it so it does not warp. Crescent wrench as a last resort. Get some rags and a cup in case oil comes out to catch it.

I would try tapping it with a hammer and see if that loosens it up.

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VitaminC

Discussion Starter · #7 · 8 d ago

yuri said:
It may have a flat disk like a coin which sits on a seat and the oil pushes it up. You could try VERY carefully loosen the top part just a smidge and maybe it is airlocked. Oil should slowly rise out of it. VERY carefully and do not unscrew it more than 1/16th of a turn.

Ideally you want to use a closed end wrench and put pressure on all sides of it so it does not warp. Crescent wrench as a last resort. Get some rags and a cup in case oil comes out to catch it.

I would try tapping it with a hammer and see if that loosens it up.

Hi Yuri, by the way, thanks for the replies.

I just want to confirm, this suggestion, to tap the bottom up and slightly open the top, is in regards to the part that we're calling the "check valve", correct?

In reference to this part:

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yuri

· #8 · 8 d ago

VitaminC said:
Hi Yuri, by the way, thanks for the replies.

I just want to confirm, this suggestion, to tap the bottom up and slightly open the top, is in regards to the part that we're calling the "check valve", correct?

In reference to this part:

Yes.

Once you loosen the top part very carefully unscrew it about 1/8 of a turn and wait to see if oil comes out. If you unscrew it too far it may pop off and then you will have no way to stop the oil. Probably takes about 1 turn to accomplish that but be careful to not overdo it.. I would loosen it myself and turn it no more than 1/4 turn but I have experience working with live oil and steam and other chemicals .

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VitaminC

Discussion Starter · #9 · 7 d ago

Also, is there a way for me to check if the Firomatic or silver handled valve is stuck closed/broken?

The pipe that connects the filter housing and the valve isnt very long.

Could I try to gently insert a pipecleaner or a metal hanger through the opening in the filter housing until it reaches the valve?

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yuri

· #10 · 7 d ago

I would loosen the top of the check valve and verify oil is flowing thru it. It could be that silver valve is stuck closed and then you won't get flow. With the top of the check valve slightly loose the oil should flow. Valves rarely break but the check valve could stick.

If you have a 1500 watt heat gun /paint stripper you could warm up the check valve and hopefully it expands and then start tapping it from underneath with a hammer. Don't get it red hot but hot enough you cannot hold your hand on it. You should also get yourself a 5 lb fire extinguisher if you want to try this. I don't see any oil leaks but be very careful what you do. Personally I would heat it but if you are uncomfortable then skip this part.

If the silver valve is shot then you will have to get the oil pumped out of the tank to be able to replace it

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VitaminC

Discussion Starter · #11 · 7 d ago

yuri said:
I would loosen the top of the check valve and verify oil is flowing thru it. It could be that silver valve is stuck closed and then you won't get flow. With the top of the check valve slightly loose the oil should flow. Valves rarely break but the check valve could stick.

If you have a 1500 watt heat gun /paint stripper you could warm up the check valve and hopefully it expands and then start tapping it from underneath with a hammer. Don't get it red hot but hot enough you cannot hold your hand on it. You should also get yourself a 5 lb fire extinguisher if you want to try this. I don't see any oil leaks but be very careful what you do. Personally I would heat it but if you are uncomfortable then skip this part.

If the silver valve is shot then you will have to get the oil pumped out of the tank to be able to replace it

I like the idea of heating it.

Question, could the heat trigger or melt the silver handled/Fromatic valve simply becasue theyre so close to each other?

Ive tried tapping several times, with a reasonable yet gentle amount of force without any result.

Yuri, see the gray/silver nut that attaches to the small pipe that comes out of the wall (picture below).

Thats loose, it has play in it, which to me, is scary as hell.

I dont know how or why its not leaking but it isnt leaking and never has.

But because of that play, I am hesitant to apply too much torque to the nut on top of the check valve.

Which is why I like the idea of introducing heat

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yuri

· #12 · 7 d ago

VitaminC said:
I like the idea of heating it.

Question, could the heat trigger or melt the silver handled/Fromatic valve simply becasue theyre so close to each other?

Ive tried tapping several times, with a reasonable yet gentle amount of force without any result.

Yuri, see the gray/silver nut that attaches to the small pipe that comes out of the wall (picture below).

Thats loose, it has play in it, which to me, is scary as hell.

I dont know how or why its not leaking but it isnt leaking and never has.

But because of that play, I am hesitant to apply too much torque to the nut on top of the check valve.

Which is why I like the idea of introducing heat

Good point as that gray nut I am sure has a ferule under it and there is a adaptor to the rest of the pipe and if you mess with it and create a leak there will be no stopping it. You have a very strange setup with a tank behind a wall but it is what it is. You won't melt anything ( I hope ) and I would try heating it. You can try loosen the check valve if you hold the body with a large pair of channel lock pliers and have a helper do that. Necessity is the Mother of Invention.

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VitaminC

Discussion Starter · #13 · 2 d ago

yuri said:
Good point as that gray nut I am sure has a ferule under it and there is a adaptor to the rest of the pipe and if you mess with it and create a leak there will be no stopping it. You have a very strange setup with a tank behind a wall but it is what it is. You won't melt anything ( I hope ) and I would try heating it. You can try loosen the check valve if you hold the body with a large pair of channel lock pliers and have a helper do that. Necessity is the Mother of Invention.

Yuri, on a related but slightly different topic, do all of these setups have pumps?

Or is it possible to have a setup such as mine that simply operates on gravity?

Before I started the job, I turned off the emergency switches to both the water heater and the furnace, did not want them to kick on while I was changing the filter.

Is there any kind of pump mechanism attached to either the water heater or furnace that has been deactivated which could actually be the source of the problem?

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yuri

· #14 · 2 d ago

VitaminC said:
Yuri, on a related but slightly different topic, do all of these setups have pumps?

Or is it possible to have a setup such as mine that simply operates on gravity?

Before I started the job, I turned off the emergency switches to both the water heater and the furnace, did not want them to kick on while I was changing the filter.

Is there any kind of pump mechanism attached to either the water heater or furnace that has been deactivated which could actually be the source of the problem?

Post a pic of the furnace. It should have a pump and there is a return line because of the difference in height between the burner and oil tank.

There were a few oil gravity floor furnaces about 50+ years ago in small houses but they are mostly obsolete. A few are still working in Florida but they are almost obsolete.

Just got a brainwave idea. Fill the oil filter manually with some diesel and bleed the air out of it. Then try start the burner. You could loosen the return line fitting at the pump and hopefully the burner will prime itself and maybe suck the check valve open. Wear safety glasses and put a rag on that fitting as it may squirt oil out.

I don't see a bleed screw at the top of the oil filter but if it has a bolt thru it remove the bolt and fill the filter with oil and try pour oil in the top hole to eliminate a air lock. You need to try have no oil in the top of the filter. Diesel is OK to use and get it at a service station.

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Changed the filter, now the oil has stopped flowing.

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