[lazerdriver]

I have bedroom closet 9x2 that is framed for two 4 foot openings. I am considering changing it to single 6 foot opening.

The reason I want to do that is I want to install a closet organizer which has a cabinet in the middle and the framing between the two openings would restrict use of the cabinet drawers. I have done some framing and drywall work myself in the past. So basically what would need to be done is to add about 16” of framing onto each side of the existing openings and remove in middle part of the framing.

My question is, is the framing in the middle supporting the existing header and would a whole new header need to be installed (which would be any more work than I would want to take on)? In this type of closet frame does the header span the entire length of the two openings? Or does the middle piece run all the way up to the ceiling joists and there are two separate headers attached to that for each opening?

 

[Nealtw]

I have bedroom closet 9x2 that is framed for two 4 foot openings. I am considering changing it to single 6 foot opening.

View attachment 726730

The reason I want to do that is I want to install a closet organizer which has a cabinet in the middle and the framing between the two openings would restrict use of the cabinet drawers. I have done some framing and drywall work myself in the past. So basically what would need to be done is to add about 16” of framing onto each side of the existing openings and remove in middle part of the framing.

My question is, is the framing in the middle supporting the existing header and would a whole new header need to be installed (which would be any more work than I would want to take on)? In this type of closet frame does the header span the entire length of the two openings? Or does the middle piece run all the way up to the ceiling joists and there are two separate headers attached to that for each opening?

Do you know the direction of the floor and ceiling joists?
If we can figure if it is load bearing or not we can give you a better answer.,

 

[lazerdriver]

The floor and ceiling joists run the same direction as the closet wall.

 

[SW Dweller]

Chances are you can re-frame this. You will need new supports for the ends of the header for your opening. If this is on the second floor check to be sure that there is not a support for the existing supports for the header below. Which would mean this is a structural wall and it would complicate matters.

Reaching into the closet corners would be something I would avoid. Maybe a larger opening.

 

[Nealtw]

The floor and ceiling joists run the same direction as the closet wall.

Unless there is some special load from above like the structure of the roof and then you would find support below right to the foundation. So do you have a floor or attic above?
Do you have a floor, basement or crawlspace below?
Most times this would be a non load bearing wall and removing it would be fine but we always want to look for that odd time it has a purpose.

 

[lazerdriver]

Unless there is some special load from above like the structure of the roof and then you would find support below right to the foundation. So do you have a floor or attic above?
Do you have a floor, basement or crawlspace below?
Most times this would be a non load bearing wall and removing it would be fine but we always want to look for that odd time it has a purpose.

This on the upper floor of a late 1980's split-level. The lower level is finished, with another bedroom directly below this one. It looks like that the back wall of the closet is almost directly above the wall (running the same direction) of the lower level bedroom.

 

[lazerdriver]

Chances are you can re-frame this. You will need new supports for the ends of the header for your opening. If this is on the second floor check to be sure that there is not a support for the existing supports for the header below. Which would mean this is a structural wall and it would complicate matters.

Reaching into the closet corners would be something I would avoid. Maybe a larger opening.

You are right on the potential new opening. I think closer to 7 feet would be better. I was planning to use a pair of bi-fold doors, but the largest I have seen sold in the big box stores is 36". I haven't checked into whether or not they can be custom ordered to a larger size like 39" or 42".

Another thing I'm not sure about is that I would be using solid core doors, which at this size weigh around 70+ pounds each. So the header would need to be able to support around 150 lbs of doors. Am I pushing the limits of how much door the header could support? I don't know at what point you need an engineered beam, but if that were needed then forget it (I must be watching one too many episode of TOH, or not enough )

If not then I think I could do something like this, assuming the header can support that much weight and there are no load bearing issues with floor below:

This is all assuming the existing framing is something like this, and the purpose of the middle part of the framing is there just to provide the separation between the two 4' openings :

Hopefully it's not like the next diagram. I don't know if anyone frames closets like this. I suppose no way to know for sure without cutting some drywall on the inside of the closet to see what it looks like in the middle. If it's like this then, again, project over and leave it as-is:

 

[Nealtw]

You are right on the potential new opening. I think closer to 7 feet would be better. I was planning to use a pair of bi-fold doors, but the largest I have seen sold in the big box stores is 36". I haven't checked into whether or not they can be custom ordered to a larger size like 39" or 42".

Another thing I'm not sure about is that I would be using solid core doors, which at this size weigh around 70+ pounds each. So the header would need to be able to support around 150 lbs of doors. Am I pushing the limits of how much door the header could support? I don't know at what point you need an engineered beam, but if that were needed then forget it (I must be watching one too many episode of TOH, or not enough )

If not then I think I could do something like this, assuming the header can support that much weight and there are no load bearing issues with floor below:
View attachment 726811

This is all assuming the existing framing is something like this, and the purpose of the middle part of the framing is there just to provide the separation between the two 4' openings :
View attachment 726812

Hopefully it's not like the next diagram. I don't know if anyone frames closets like this. I suppose no way to know for sure without cutting some drywall on the inside of the closet to see what it looks like in the middle. If it's like this then, again, project over and leave it as-is:
View attachment 726813

We talk about a header when you have a bearing wall and you need to hold up the house above.
All your drawings are of a sill and cripple studs.

Except of pocket doors, all doors are supported by the studs on both side.
Even with that said we do a sill and cripples for a a pocket door too.
When you want a bigger bifold door you use 2 sets that add up to what you need.
for a 6 ft opening you use 2 bifolds 36" each.
You might have this now.

You would change it to something like this adding 1 1/4" to the width of the doors for framing to allow for drywall or 1/2" trim wood.

If you have 2 useable 4 foot doors now, you might re use them
And make the opening 97 1/4"
You could center it or just move it over to one side.

We always want 2 studs on each side of the door.

 

[Nealtw]

The only difference when using 2 sets of doors they add brackets near the bottom to the inside of the doors where they meet to make them line up when closed.
National Hardware N344-895 Bi-Fold Door Aligner Zinc-Plated Steel Zinc-Plated (dkhardware.com)

 

[Elmer-Dallas Texas]

Imo, too much work for too little gain. Look for a different organizer. I use some 2x4 cubbies from ikea that are called Kallax. But there are hundreds of items that can be closet organizers without destructing your home. Just my thoughts.

 

[lazerdriver]

Imo, too much work for too little gain. Look for a different organizer. I use some 2x4 cubbies from ikea that are called Kallax. But there are hundreds of items that can be closet organizers without destructing your home. Just my thoughts.

Good point. I will look at some other options too.

 

[lazerdriver]

We talk about a header when you have a bearing wall and you need to hold up the house above.
All your drawings are of a sill and cripple studs.

Except of pocket doors, all doors are supported by the studs on both side.
Even with that said we do a sill and cripples for a a pocket door too.
When you want a bigger bifold door you use 2 sets that add up to what you need.
for a 6 ft opening you use 2 bifolds 36" each.
You might have this now.
View attachment 726815
You would change it to something like this adding 1 1/4" to the width of the doors for framing to allow for drywall or 1/2" trim wood.
View attachment 726817

If you have 2 useable 4 foot doors now, you might re use them
And make the opening 97 1/4"
You could center it or just move it over to one side.
View attachment 726822

We always want 2 studs on each side of the door.

If it is necessary for the two studs on each side to extend to the ceiling joists, and remove some of the existing sill stud and replace with one continuous stud, then that is more work than I want to get into. I could do it but I am so slow at this stuff that by the time I did all that plus doing all the drywall it would take me a month. Sometimes it takes m an hour just to decide the right size nail or screw to use

Any ideas what a contractor would charge to do the framing changes like this?

 

[Nealtw]

If it is necessary for the two studs on each side to extend to the ceiling joists, and remove some of the existing sill stud and replace with one continuous stud, then that is more work than I want to get into. I could do it but I am so slow at this stuff that by the time I did all that plus doing all the drywall it would take me a month. Sometimes it takes m an hour just to decide the right size nail or screw to use

Any ideas what a contractor would charge to do the framing changes like this?

Framing it would be a few hours and a few 2x4s so it shouldn't break the back to have done.

 

[lazerdriver]

Framing it would be a few hours and a few 2x4s so it shouldn't break the back to have done.

Ok, so maybe 3 or 4 hours labor. Good to know. Thanks!

 

[lazerdriver]

Framing it would be a few hours and a few 2x4s so it shouldn't break the back to have done.

So I talked to one contractor, waiting for others to get back to me. His quote was pretty low, so I am a bit suspicious.

Here is my existing framing...

Here is what he wants to do, which is different than what you suggested and doesn't seem right to me. (notice the lack of continuous studs across the width of new opening, and new studs to reduce the opening width do not extend all the way up).

I think you suggest doing something more like this...

Is it just two ways of doing the same thing, or is his way going to have problems (or maybe not even comply with national or local building codes)?

 

[Nealtw]

So I talked to one contractor, waiting for others to get back to me. His quote was pretty low, so I am a bit suspicious.

Here is my existing framing...
View attachment 727429

Here is what he wants to do, which is different than what you suggested and doesn't seem right to me. (notice the lack of continuous studs across the width of new opening, and new studs to reduce the opening width do not extend all the way up).
View attachment 727430

I think you suggest doing something more like this...
View attachment 727435

Is it just two ways of doing the same thing, or is his way going to have problems (or maybe not even comply with national or local building codes)?

That works but don't forget to add the 1 1/4" for rough framing. Assuming the framer will just add it is foolishness.

 

[lazerdriver]

That works but don't forget to add the 1 1/4" for rough framing. Assuming the framer will just add it is foolishness.

For sure.

So I got a quote from another contractor and this one wants to tear it all out and re-frame from scratch. I'm not against that. It's about twice as much as the other version ($800 vs $350), but he mentioned using 2x6's which I'm not sure is necessary.

I also I want to raise the rough opening by about 1.5" and widen the opening by another foot to 96", so maybe that all justifies a complete tear-out and redo. But I haven't told either contractor that yet, so I assume the one for $350 would go up with those requirements.

The reason for widening the opening from 84" to 96" is finding doors in the style and size I want (and not pay out the nose) is next to impossible for the 84" opening. I can get 24" raised-panel, solid-core slab doors (at about $150 each from big box stores) and make them into bi-folds myself for the 96" opening. Nobody sells 21" door anywhere, and custom ordering is a pain. Some don't do custom size at all. I checked with one manufacturer that does custom sizes and I got a quote of $1200 per slab from one manufacturer. And that was just the cost of the door, another $500 to pack and ship, lol.

The reason for raising the opening by 1.5" is because the previous doors were hanging about an inch lower that the bedroom door next to it. I would like to use some more heavy duty hardware since these will be solid-core doors (bi-folds). This hardware is on rollers, like a pocket door, and I think it would operate more smoothly considering the size and weight of the new doors. The height of the new hardware would result in the doors sitting about 2 inches lower than the bedroom door.

 

[Nealtw]

For sure.

So I got a quote from another contractor and this one wants to tear it all out and re-frame from scratch. I'm not against that. It's about twice as much as the other version ($800 vs $350), but he mentioned using 2x6's which I'm not sure is necessary.

I also I want to raise the rough opening by about 1.5" and widen the opening by another foot to 96", so maybe that all justifies a complete tear-out and redo. But I haven't told either contractor that yet, so I assume the one for $350 would go up with those requirements.

The reason for widening the opening from 84" to 96" is finding doors in the style and size I want (and not pay out the nose) is next to impossible for the 84" opening. I can get 24" raised-panel, solid-core slab doors (at about $150 each from big box stores) and make them into bi-folds myself for the 96" opening. Nobody sells 21" door anywhere, and custom ordering is a pain. Some don't do custom size at all. I checked with one manufacturer that does custom sizes and I got a quote of $1200 per slab from one manufacturer. And that was just the cost of the door, another $500 to pack and ship, lol.

The reason for raising the opening by 1.5" is because the previous doors were hanging about an inch lower that the bedroom door next to it. I would like to use some more heavy duty hardware since these will be solid-core doors (bi-folds). This hardware is on rollers, like a pocket door, and I think it would operate more smoothly considering the size and weight of the new doors. The height of the new hardware would result in the doors sitting about 2 inches lower than the bedroom door.

Because the bifold does not have a door jam like a swing door they always finish lower on top when trimmed out.
There is no need for 2x6 on an interior wall.
If you go to 96, you could reuse the doors you removed.
If you go up to the roller style that hang from the top, buy the hardware first, they will need more height.
The instruction should give you a height and then you would add the 1 1/2" to that to match the other doors.