[adam759]

Hello Everyone!

I am working at a horse barn fixing up their ancient electrical. There is one sub-panel in particular that is quite ancient and in need of breaker replacement. The breakers have gotten very loose, both in the lever action and how they are seated, and are no longer safe. I need to replace the breakers, but the breakers that are in there are all different types and brands, which include GE, Siemens, and Cutler-Hammer. The most predominant brand is GE. But they are all different types. There is no marking anywhere on the cover or box of what brand the panel it is or what breakers to use. Does anyone know where that would be or can ID the panel just by the look of the panel? The pictures are in the attachments.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Adam

 

[BayouRunner]

Not an electrician but that's a real common breaker. Any ITE breaker will work

 

[adam759]

That is what I thought. Some of the breakers are pretty loose, but the ones that fit the snuggest are the Siemens type QP breakers. I will probably end up getting those. I was also considering just going ahead and getting new guts for the panel as well. I really don't want to replace the body as there are many pipes coming into the existing body. The body was also put in before the wall was put in. I just need to know the model to find the replacement guts. Thank you though, I did not know that ITE was a standard breaker type!

 

[Jim Port]

Not an electrician but that's a real common breaker. Any ITE breaker will work

The breaker need to be listed for use in the panel.you cannot just use something that looks like it may fit.

 

[circuitman]

looks like an old ITE/ SYLVANIA lot of breakers would interchange. i would rip it out & put in a SQUARE D QO or HOMELINE panel. the later being cheaper , but still an excellent panel.:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

 

[gregzoll]

What is with the Green wire with the 12 vDC crimp eye on it, along with the electrical tape. I would pull the panel and go with a GE panel from the local Electrical warehouse, not from the big box.

Also are you even licensed to do this work? Horse barns in particular have had more electrical fires then anything else.

 

[dmxtothemax]

I would rip it out & put in a SQUARE D QO or HOMELINE panel. :biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

I Think he is trying to avoid that ?
See post 3.

Can you just replace the guts of it ?

:glasses:

 

[elec_2014]

Also, you state it is a "sub-panel", from what I can see there are only 3 conductors coming up from the bottom of the panel, two hot and one neutral. If this is a sub-panel 4 conductors should be coming into it; two hot, one neutral and the ground coming from the main panel. Then since this is a detached building I believe it must also have another ground wire going to a ground rod, bonded to the grounding bar.

From the picture it looks as though the ground wires are going to the neutral bar which is incorrect. Neutral bar should be isolated from the panel and the ground wires going to a ground bar, then bonded to the panel.

 

[Jump-start]

Bryant panel with GE and Crouse-Hinds breakers. The main appears to Siemens ITE.

 

[Tom738]

looks like an old ITE/ SYLVANIA lot of breakers would interchange. i would rip it out & put in a SQUARE D QO or HOMELINE panel. the later being cheaper , but still an excellent panel.:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

If you do wind up replacing, between those two, I would go Homeline. It's a little less convenient because you can't tell at a glance which circuits have tripped, but is cheaper down the road if you need replacement parts and have less disposable income. Even if the price difference isn't a problem for you now, when they invent safer DOAMERIKGNASA breakers twenty years from now and require them on every circuit, the Q0 breakers will cost a lot more.

(I know people on very tight budgets who haven't upgraded to GFCI breakers because they have Q0 panels).

 

[Arrow3030]

My guess is a Bryant also which is cuttler hammer BR series now.

 

[adam759]

Thank you to everyone! I am pretty sure it is a Bryant panel. After Jump-start suggested it, I did some research on them. They look exactly alike. Upon further contemplation, I am going to go ahead and install a new panel. This panel is just too rotted and old. Because of the major size constraints, I opted to get an 8 space Eaton Loadcenter. It will fit perfectly in the existing hole in the wall. The problem with the Square D panels is they are just too big. I can't cut the hole too much larger because there are main studs. So anyways, I got the panel and am installing it next week. The wiring in this building has to be from at least the 80's. A lot of the runs in this box I found to just dead end at a wire nut in junction boxes throughout the building. Everything needs to be rerouted which is what I am doing. The wiring is all newer, just nobody took the time to redo the sub-panel. Because of the age of the building, there is no ground wire, only two hots and a neutral. What should I do about this?

 

[Arrow3030]

This is a detached building pre 2008 so bond the neutral to the panel. The panel should come with a means to do this. For eaton it's usually an S shaped copper coated bar that swings into the neutral bar on one end and secures to the panel frame on the other.

 

[adam759]

Alright, I thought so. The current panel is bonded so I will do the same with this new panel. The panel feeds a network of rigid piping that has hots and neutrals. Because it is pre 2008, probably 70's or 80's or even earlier, there is no ground wire. There is, however, copper water piping that comes up into the same utility room. Would it do any good to ground the panel to that? Or is the bonded neutral enough?