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The epa certification is not needed to buy and install a package unit.



Good luck to people trying to learn new skills when homeless and likely severely mentally ill and or addicted to drugs.
I know I couldn't do it.



LOL yes, at some point your going to have to install refrigerant if your doing it yourself on a new unit: the factory charge refrigerant may or may not match the complete system. For the newbies/laymans::: not all units are charged with refrigerant, some are nitrogen (stored)- one needs to weigh in the charge in this case from a tank of refrigerant.


**I hadnt even touched on proper EPA evacuation/recovery and re-commisioning if the OP went the repair route.



DRIVE HOME POINT #C is I think EPA 608 test should be part of 6th-7th grade science curriculum in public schools; as a former professor & teacher I compared the 608 EPA with a current science curriculum and a lot would support science concepts in this curriculum grade.


Luck has nothing to do with learning new skills. Dig deeper. Having an autistic child (mental disability) his "LUCK" has nothing to do with his will to learn a skill.

Sorry for causing the off topic digressions.
 

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Package units are like fridges and window a/cs - sealed systems with the correct amount of refrigerant from the factory.

There's always a risk it comes with the wrong amount of refrigerant due to poor quality control - I wouldn't know how common that is.

Do keep in mind, the ops unit has no refrigerant left so recovery isn't necessary.

Luck has nothing to do with learning new skills. Dig deeper. I have an autistic child (mental disability) his "LUCK" has nothing to do with his will to learn a skill.
I never used the word luck.

Just that if you're starving and have no safe place to sleep, probably not thinking straight not going to be able to learn new skills easily.

The lower needs in maslow's hierarchy need to be addressed first which is why homelessness is such a horrible trap.

There are also limits and some people are just not capable and would be terrible doing this kind of stuff - they used to work in the factories before they were mostly moved offshore.

As is, there are too many people out there not doing things properly - too many people going to university instead of learning practical theory and skills.
 

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To be fair and accurate you used the worse phrase of luck "good luck"
"Good luck to people trying to learn new skills when homeless and likely severely mentally ill and or addicted to drugs.
I know I couldn't do it
"


There is practical theroy learning in the university. I have taught thermo dynamics courses in real world labs (pretty close simulation); additionally there are co-op schools like GMI, GA PolyTech, Many in FL where you integrate: co-op classroom with a corporation or organization * GMI is mandatory Company sponsorship to enroll.

Your getting into a topic of standards vs OP questions could I repair my broken HVAC system? Answer is Yes, maybe and you will have to determine your skill, patience and value of time and money- money being the lowest factor IMO.
 

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That is a valid point. The package unit will come tested and pre-charged.
All that needs to be done is the electrical hookup and ducting.

Its a point but not a valid one with out evidence and facts.



Per installation start-ups of most installation manuals; charging by weight there is a calculation to adjust the system charge by weight for the straight length of the refrigerant line set.
For Example Rheem 410A Heat pump 14 seer/15seer the charge value of the pre-charge refrigerant includes charge required for 15 ft of standard size interconnecting liquid line without a filter drier. Common practive with Rheem, Trane .


If your lineset is shorter or longer : one needs to adjust the charge per subcooling (or superheat) which gets into an installation procedure and discussion.


Calculate ACTUAL CHARGE required with installed liquid line size and length using:
1/4 in od =.3 oz ft
5/16 in od = .4 oz/ft
3/8 in o.d.= .6 oz/ft
1/2 in o.d.= 1.2 oz ft

Charging by weight is a starting point ONLY!

So with the facts in, and a DIYER (OP) that does not have the refrigerant on hand (which you need a EPA cert) to adjust charge your failing to plan among other EPA violations and problems.


Additionally, EPA regulations under Section 608 of the Clean Air Act require that technicians who maintain, service, repair, or dispose of equipment that could release ozone-depleting refrigerants into the atmosphere must be certified. This is NOT a license its a certification of understanding refrigerant recovery, usage, evacuation , safety, purchase. The EPA considers the homeowner the technician (regardless of skill/experiemce) so if your caught working with refrigerant with out this CERT (NOT A license) then there will be penalties: financially and/or criminal depending on actions.

And yes I have reported someone without a EPA cert that was illegally evacuating roof top R22 units; and the EPA followed through and I did receive a reward check from the EPA as the person /owner were severely fined, among other ramifications (personal lawsuits that bankrupted them due to negligence) .https://www.epa.gov/ozone-layer-protection/enforcement-actions-under-title-vi-clean-air-act

Conclusion GET your EPA 608 cert! if your going to work with refrigerant in residential/etc ( theres other epa certs for automotive or you can obtain a universal 608 much broader). PERIOD!


I did check with my two of my ditributors Gemaire and RE Micheal. Re Micheal does have a "dry Charge" ((nitrogen stored technically)) Ameristar unit. Some manufactures are using this loop hool in the EPA for R22 replacement situations i.e. evap is good on a split unit.



there is a loophole, called “Dry Charging”. While R-22 cannot be installed in new units at the factory some companies will manufacture a new unit with no refrigerant in it. Since the manufacturers are not putting in any refrigerant in they are not breaking the law.
 

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Its a point but not a valid one with out evidence and facts.
Speaking of evidence and facts....shame on you for not doing the due diligence.

Go back and look at the unit.
It is entirely self contained. No additional lines, dryers etc. needed.
It is a PACKAGE UNIT.
Not one thing you said in your dissertation applies.
 

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Speaking of evidence and facts....shame on you for not doing the due diligence.

Go back and look at the unit.
It is entirely self contained. No additional lines, dryers etc. needed.
It is a PACKAGE UNIT.
Not one thing you said in your dissertation applies.

I can supply evidence of a package unit needind a charge adjustment; addtionally I can supply you many package units that are dry charge.


The evidence applies to OP get a EPA cert. Im not commenting on your standards other then your false statement with no facts or evidence.


Please block me if your going make statements= closed mind vs questions open mind.

Like how are coming up with that information? which I supplied
 

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Packaged units need no such charge adjustment.
I’m not aware of any packaged unit that has come dry charged. Please share the link to such a unit.
I am aware of air handlers, nanitorium units and other equipment that requires additional field piping. But these aren’t packaged units.
The OP doesn’t need a EPA card to purchase one. And doesn’t need to do any charge adjustment.
 

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I can supply evidence of a package unit needind a charge adjustment; addtionally I can supply you many package units that are dry charge.
I understand that you know everything. Your need to prove it is getting old.
I don't really care if this unit needs a charge adjustment.
Once again, that has nothing to do with the original question.
The OP simply asked if he could do this. Since he doesn't have to deal with any refrigerant, just electrical and ducting there is absolutely no reason he cannot.
If he needs a "charge adjustment" he can call you.
This is a DIY chatroom. If you want to prove your knowledge then go to HVAC Talk and impress them with your knowledge.
But some friendly advice. Pay attention to the topic rather than making it what you want to discuss.
 

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I understand that you know everything. Your need to prove it is getting old.
I don't really care if this unit needs a charge adjustment.
Once again, that has nothing to do with the original question.
The OP simply asked if he could do this. Since he doesn't have to deal with any refrigerant, just electrical and ducting there is absolutely no reason he cannot.
If he needs a "charge adjustment" he can call you.


This is a DIY chatroom. If you want to prove your knowledge then go to HVAC Talk and impress them with your knowledge.



ROFL.



But some friendly advice. Pay attention to the topic rather than making it what you want to discuss.
@jmig7


A residential package unit. Whether Straight A/C, HP, Electric/Electric, or Gas/Electric. Is pre-charged, and requires no EPA cert to buy and install.
 

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Packaged units need no such charge adjustment.
I’m not aware of any packaged unit that has come dry charged. Please share the link to such a unit.
I am aware of air handlers, nanitorium units and other equipment that requires additional field piping. But these aren’t packaged units.
The OP doesn’t need a EPA card to purchase one. And doesn’t need to do any charge adjustment.

This is a dry charge PACKAGED UNIT from my lennox dealer:
Lennox® LRP16 packaged air conditioners and heat pumps
If your a lennox contractor you can get access to more then the general link which is here: https://www.lennoxpros.com/product-updates/lrp16-complete-system-e


So it will need to be commissioned with refrigerant.


This is a great crawlspace setup unit.
 

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@jmig7


A residential package unit. Whether Straight A/C, HP, Electric/Electric, or Gas/Electric. Is pre-charged, and requires no EPA cert to buy and install.

not true many packaged units that are DRY and will need refrigerant.



I am glad the OP didnt need to purchase refrigerant but the point of this CHAT ROOM is DIY and helping the DIY plan.
 

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This is a dry charge PACKAGED UNIT from my lennox dealer:
Lennox® LRP16 packaged air conditioners and heat pumps
If your a lennox contractor you can get access to more then the general link which is here: https://www.lennoxpros.com/product-updates/lrp16-complete-system-e


So it will need to be commissioned with refrigerant.


This is a great crawlspace setup unit.
I see nothing about being a dry charge unit.
Which doesn’t matter anyhow to the OP and this thread. As the OP will have a precharged packaged unit. Which doesn’t need any charge adjustment.
 

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not true many packaged units that are DRY and will need refrigerant.



I am glad the OP didnt need to purchase refrigerant but the point of this CHAT ROOM is DIY and helping the DIY plan.

The link to those Lennox units, show they are pre-charged, not dry charge.


I've installed about as many packaged/RTUs as the next guy. And all the residential ones I did were pre-charged.
 

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This is a copy and paste from the manual you linked-

R-410A Refrigerant
Non-chlorine, ozone friendly, R-410A. Unit pre-charged with refrigerant.
 

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Here’s a screen shot from the page you provided a link for.
The Lennox is not dry charge.
I’ve installed and serviced packaged units from around 2.5/3 ton to 200 tons. And none have ever been dry charge units.

Yes you can "get/order" it dry charged. Some manufactures are still creating dry charge units to get around the EPA R22 laws without violating them. Create a lennoxpro.com account you can order that unit dry; sure I'll eat little crow for Missouri; however saying something that doesnt exist that does is not valid.

Manufactures still create a "dry charge "unit in the condensor (split) and packaged.

* note I have also seen package units not properly refrigerant charged.
If your going DIY go all the way in...


Again glad the OP was successful
 

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Dry charge were for split equipment.
There is absolutely no reason for a manufacturer to produce a dry charged packaged unit that uses R22.
Again, please supply a link to validate your claims.
As far as incorrect charge in a packaged system I’ve seen 1 in 19 years. And it was due to a leak that was caused by the shipping company.
 

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I once bought a refrigerator from home depot that was a dry charge unit, so I know they do exist.

Man I love April fools day. GOT CHA!! Hahahaha!!!!! Good one jimg7!
 

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I once bought a refrigerator from home depot that was a dry charge unit, so I know they do exist.

Roughneck wants proof of an R22 packaged unit in a "dry charge" I put an order request at lennoxpro distributor and RE Micheal distributor to get a quote and I will screen shot or upload the quote thats shows dry charge R22 package unit with model#. Its not going to be a link.
 
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