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i have spoken to several electric companies that told me state law allows home owners to pull their own electric permit as long as they live in the residence and are doing the work them selves.
Although there are odd exceptions, this is the case in the vast majority of the US.
 

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observations

Thought I would share some experiences.

A kitchen remodel, handled by a GC with electrical subs. Permitted. Subs ran new home runs to the load center and during subsequent work cut up the outer insulation on the romex just outside the load center. Instead of replacing, this 12-2 NM was wrapped in electrical tape. In plain view when looking at the load center, the inspector passed it. I don't know if this a problem per the code, but is sure substandard work in my book

Asked village building dept about outdoor sprinkler system. Needed to know what permits required and what type of anti-backflow device need be installed. They knew that a permit would need to be paid for, but could not tell me (the plumbing inspector, mind you) whether anti-siphon or RPZ or what was necessary.

Permits are expensive. What value is being provided for these dollars in these cases? Are these rare exceptions of little consequence or examples of a larger trend? I don't know.

And so it goes. Seems to me that although building codes and subsequent enforcement are necessary (indeed, most of the codes are written in response to past tragedy), incompetence, laziness, corruption and public / private racketeering dilute the good and honorable intention of code enforcement efforts

In short, government of any type requires a diligent, informed and aggressive electorate to ensure that the people's interests are served. In my, and perhaps the Constitutional framers, opinion.
 

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Well, if you've gotten yourself hole'd up in some quaint little historic nitch like Greendale, or out in Oconomowoc, or even up in Brookfield, you just may find fighting City Hall an uphill battle. :)
 

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A little personal experience and a Question.
Question first. Can you do ANY electrical work yourself? Do you understand the simple things such as Black to Brass, White to Silver, Ground to green? What guage of wire to run where? Any of these? And many more?

We have pretty much the same situation here, but I went and said I wanted to pull the permit to change a panel. Long storey there, BUT, I was able to take a test and prove I was proficient in residential wiring, to the point I would be allowed to wire my OWN home. I did so, got the permit and did the work. I wouldn't want to do THAT scope again, because they required ME, not anybody else to run the SE too. I didn't like working with that hot line, I can tell you!:eek:

Point is, you may have a remedy in my meandering story.
 

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Thought I would share some experiences.

A kitchen remodel, handled by a GC with electrical subs. Permitted. Subs ran new home runs to the load center and during subsequent work cut up the outer insulation on the romex just outside the load center. Instead of replacing, this 12-2 NM was wrapped in electrical tape. In plain view when looking at the load center, the inspector passed it. I don't know if this a problem per the code, but is sure substandard work in my book

Asked village building dept about outdoor sprinkler system. Needed to know what permits required and what type of anti-backflow device need be installed. They knew that a permit would need to be paid for, but could not tell me (the plumbing inspector, mind you) whether anti-siphon or RPZ or what was necessary.

Permits are expensive. What value is being provided for these dollars in these cases? Are these rare exceptions of little consequence or examples of a larger trend? I don't know.

And so it goes. Seems to me that although building codes and subsequent enforcement are necessary (indeed, most of the codes are written in response to past tragedy), incompetence, laziness, corruption and public / private racketeering dilute the good and honorable intention of code enforcement efforts

In short, government of any type requires a diligent, informed and aggressive electorate to ensure that the people's interests are served. In my, and perhaps the Constitutional framers, opinion.
I think your experiences are rare exceptions. I've never had an issue dealing with the inspectors and subcode officials. But I have to admit that in my area we have had some high profile problems with past officials. That kind of shook everyone up, so fortunately for the better part of 10 years now, we've been blessed with some very good pros at the helm of these local departments.

As for your plumbing guy, in my experience the type of backflow preventer you need depends on some physical factors that the irrigation system designer specifies. Once that info is known, then you can select the correct BFP. If you asked me what kind to use, I wouldn't know until I saw your system and knew elevations and such, and I'm a licensed engineer.
 

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A little personal experience and a Question.
Question first. Can you do ANY electrical work yourself? Do you understand the simple things such as Black to Brass, White to Silver, Ground to green? What guage of wire to run where? Any of these? And many more?

We have pretty much the same situation here, but I went and said I wanted to pull the permit to change a panel. Long storey there, BUT, I was able to take a test and prove I was proficient in residential wiring, to the point I would be allowed to wire my OWN home. I did so, got the permit and did the work. I wouldn't want to do THAT scope again, because they required ME, not anybody else to run the SE too. I didn't like working with that hot line, I can tell you!:eek:

Point is, you may have a remedy in my meandering story.
That's how it is in my area also. If you can demonstrate to the officials that you know what you're doing, you can pull a permit. I've done plumbing, electrical work, and asbestos abatement/removal as a homeowner, all under permits.
 

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I wouldn't want to do THAT scope again, because they required ME, not anybody else to run the SE too. I didn't like working with that hot line, I can tell you!:eek:

Point is, you may have a remedy in my meandering story.
They required you to run the service entrance cable LIVE. That is not correct. OSHA would have something to say about that.
 

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I was doing a full upgrade, including new meter and higher service.
I was given 'All or None' option. As noted earlier, NO licensed electrician would would assume any responsibility in any phase of a DIY project.
None would run a SE into a home wired by a DIY'er. I understood and I think you can understand that now.
I didn't want to go into the full scope.

THe licensed electrician that taught me how used aluminum ladders and went up there with bare hands and a pocket knife.:eek: He said that he was used to the tingle.:eek:
 

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I've never heard of anyone running a SE while power is on/ wires connected at the pole
Here a homeowner can't run the SE, they required an electrician
POCO made the final connection at the Pole AFTER the wire was run, connected to the meter & the new panel
 

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I need to clarify something. I had forgotten a detail. I didn't hook up at the pol eor the power head on the house. I used the hot SE to light up the new meter box, and through it to the existing, old meter so the house could be fully tested with load before Vapor installed the new meter, and ran the newer upgraded SE.

Sorry about that. It's been 25+ years.
 

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The code is only the worst way to build and still be legal. It is not necessarily the best or correct way to do it. That is why the IRC and IBC, which are national codes, can have local supplements added to reflect the local soils and climates, and to take into account the level of expertise the applicants have shown (to protect people from themselves and future purchasers).

If you really look at the numbers, a permit does not really cover the cost of enforcement, so the concept of being a profit is rediculous. The permit cost just partially offsets the real enforcement cost the local community has to pay for some reasonable standards for the residents and future residents/buyers.


Ever tried to stop a game warden when he wants to search? - In many areas thre have ultimate power and you may win a battle, but lose the war. I knew of people dressed to go to church on a Sunday morning. The game warden stopped the car to search it. He found a deer in the trunk. Fortunately he did not have his gun in the car and they were not interested in taking his car since he cooperated. If he had resisted, they could have taken his car and called cab to take them to church. After that, an expensive trial would have to determine the return of the car since they were obviously and knowingly doing something wrong.

Dick
 

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Wow, I sure am thankful to have had such a good experience with my local code officials/inspectors. We have been doing a huge addition project DIY style, 2 story, wiring the whole place myself, yadda yadda. I went into it with a "You get more bees with honey than vinegar" style and it has helped immensely. My electrical inspector has given me a wealth of information, my building inspector worked with me on a few small measurement issues, and the list goes on. BUT, yes I pulled a permit for every portion before I started, I asked pros what TO do and what NOT to do, and I asked the building inspector questions BEFORE starting. Yes, I've spent a couple hundred bucks on permits and it stung a bit, but with all the advice and info I've been given, I chock it up to a cost of learning.

I know not every township is lucky enough to have good personnel, but I still say it's easier going into it with the right attitude.


:thumbsup:
 

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I'm in the middle of a dormer addition, and I believe my permits cost me $325 for building, $200? for electircal (I'm upgrading to 200A while I'm at it), and $75 for plumbing. Sure, it's a lot of money, but I doubt they're making a profit on me. Being a DIY'er, they have definitely helped me out along the way. No complaints (but then again, I haven't had my rough inspections yet :) )
 

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Wow, I sure am thankful to have had such a good experience with my local code officials/inspectors. We have been doing a huge addition project DIY style, 2 story, wiring the whole place myself, yadda yadda. I went into it with a "You get more bees with honey than vinegar" style and it has helped immensely. My electrical inspector has given me a wealth of information, my building inspector worked with me on a few small measurement issues, and the list goes on. BUT, yes I pulled a permit for every portion before I started, I asked pros what TO do and what NOT to do, and I asked the building inspector questions BEFORE starting. Yes, I've spent a couple hundred bucks on permits and it stung a bit, but with all the advice and info I've been given, I chock it up to a cost of learning.

I know not every township is lucky enough to have good personnel, but I still say it's easier going into it with the right attitude.


:thumbsup:
Well said. 100% right! :yes:
 

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(but then again, I haven't had my rough inspections yet :) )
My rough in inspection = 10 minutes looking at structure, 25 minutes talking about kids.

(But I also took a lot of time making sure no corners were cut and everything was done correctly)

:thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter #38
i had my inspection done by our local building inspector. he said that EVERYTHING looks good including all the electrical work. but i still need to pull the electric permit by a licensed electrician. my work is up to snuff yet i still need to pay a licensed electrician to pull the permit. this is what i don't get. he approves my work yet i still need to pay a state licensed and village licensed electrician to pull the permit. looking back i would do everything the same way except only one difference. i would get the drywall delivered on the weekend when the building inspector is not out inspecting homes. even doing this the "illegal" way it still saves me a lot of money then hiring an electrican to do all the work. i'm still amazed at our electric permit application. every thing itemized on the application. "want a light switch .40 cents, an outlet .40 cents. those recessed lights are going to cost you $3.25 each." give me a break.
 

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I think that itemization is sort of the norm for electrical permits. That is exactly how mine was. Again though, I talked about this before hand and my Elec Inspector said "if you install more, we'll add 'em, if you do less, we'll take 'em off". It was no big deal. I think it is the best solution because an electrical inspection can't be done simply on square footage, it's really the only way to make it fair project-to-project.

Had you done it the way you suggest, the final inspector could have then said "alright, now rip out the drywall and let us take a look at the electrical" and you'd be even more pissed off.

That said though... are you certain you have to have a licenced electrician PULL the electrical permit? So you are saying that DIY work is not allowed in your area? I've never heard of that before. We can go to the township for homeowner permits or contractor permits. Either way, because you already did the work, you are climbing an uphill battle.

Actually, that might be the very reason you are being told you have to have a licensed electrician come in, simply because the work is already done before the permit was pulled.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
yes, i am sure it is required for a licensed electrician to pull the permit in my village. i have questioned my inspector about this several times. he even stated that if i can show him in the NEC where it says that homeowners can work on electric them selves that he would allow me to pull my own permit. it's from my understanding that in most wisconsin communities this is allowed by wisconsin state law as long as you don't add circuits to the panel. i did in-fact add 4 or 5 circuits to the panel when i did the remodel.

i actually had a good conversation with my inspector and happen to like him minus the fact he barged in my house without my permission. it's the village laws i have a problem with.
 
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