[Bondo]

My 100 year old rental house/ cottage rebuild/ remodel took a major leap forward a couple weeks ago, with the pour of 11 yards of SCC into the mostly new foundation as a ballast fill/ subgrade for what will be a heated poured concrete floor that'll all be tiled,...
Anyways, that's not where I'm at, at the moment,.....
Readin' this thread, Mudding my backerboard,.....

I'm now reframin' out the house, 'n my next area is gonna be the new bathroom,......
At this point, my Love, Deb, is gonna tile the floors, includin' the bathroom,...
She/ We've been salvagin' tile for years, got alot,....
We also have some glass blocks to incorporate into the build,...
Deb wants a tub, but in a 6'x 10' bathroom, it's tight, I want a fair sized shower,...

Anyways,.... The reason for this thread,...

As an option, you can also use tar paper. I used 30lb.....it will actually do a better job of sealing especially around the screw holes.

I'm framin' out the walls to be alot closer to plumb, 'n square,...
Once I'm ready to close 'em up, what's the Ideal wall to build out for tile, in a shower/ very wet spot,..??
How 'bout for the ceilin' in the shower,..??
(floor above is also radiant for the new kitchen above)
Shower heads may be in 2 walls, 'n probably the ceilin',...

I've got poly, reinforced poly, 'n tar paper,....
For backer board, I've seen durorock, 'n have some,...
Also have some stuff that's thinner, harder, more durable feelin' but no name on it,....
Once framed, plumbed, 'n wired, 4"/ 5" closed cell spray foam will be used for insulation,...

Thanks for any words of wisdom,...... :wink2:

 

[cleveman]

I like Densshield on walls and on the floor.

I like cutting it better than Durock and it doesn't break like Durock. The breaking is fine if you are bedding it in mortar on the floor, but I don't care for it breaking on a wall.

You don't have to apply a liquid waterproofing membrane on Densshield. And where you wouldn't have the liquid waterproofing, it is easier to install tile on Densshield because the surface doesn't suck the moisture out of the mortar immediately like with Durock.

I would install Densshield on the ceiling as well, and tile the ceiling. If you don't want to tile the ceiling, then use Densshield in place of sheetrock.

Spend a lot of time laying out the bath. You'll have to plan where you want grab bars and install 2x backing for them. I like to install 4 corner shelves in the tub/shower, along with a soap dish with a handle on it. I like a toilet paper holder which installs on the wall, and towel racks as well.

I'm doing a bath now with 4 towel racks. Two are @ 3' from the floor, and 2 are above them @ 6'. You need a towel rack for every person in the family and hopefully for a hand towel for the sink as well.

Think about how you will mount mirrors and light fixtures. Think about how you will mount the shower head rod, if you have a hand-held shower head planned. Think about how you will tile around the window.

 

[BigJim]

I used Redgard over the hardy backer board, it is still in perfect shape, no leaks what so ever.

If you tile the floor, bed the hardy backer in a bed of thinset then tape the seams, it will be there til the cows come home.

 

[Bondo]

I like Densshield on walls and on the floor.

Ayuh,.... Lota Great info cleveman,... I'll be lookin' into Densshield,...

I too, don't like how durock is so crumbly,...
Densshield might be what the other "Stuff" I've got is,....
More like a solid concrete, rather than soft concrete, 'n fabric, like the durock,....

You brought up a few points I hadn't thought of yet, such as where the towel hangers, 'n what nots are gonna be,....
A mirror is gonna be tricky, as the only window is in front of the sink at this point,....

If you tile the floor, bed the hardy backer in a bed of thinset then tape the seams, it will be there til the cows come home.

Thanks Jim,....

What I've been thinkin' the floor profile will be is,....
Right now, the ballast concrete is 'bout 5, 1/2" low,.....
On top of it is goin' 4" of dow foam board, steel, 'n pex tubin', topped with 2" of SCConcrete floated out, 'n pitched to the walk-in shower drain,....
This is only in the 6'x 10' bathroom, the rest of the 16'x 26' floor will be floated level, at 1/2" low, leavin' that space for Deb's tile job,....

So, bottom line is, I wasn't gonna use any backer board on the floor, just tile right over the concrete,...

Deb, 'n I are goin' out together today, so's I can get some feedback from her on what she'd like to see,....

I'll post more later, after I pick Deb's noggin',.... Thanks,.....

 

[BigJim]

If your floor is already concrete, there is sense puttin something down that is already there. LOL

 

[Nestor_Kelebay]

I like Densshield on walls and on the floor.
I like cutting it better than Durock and it doesn't break like Durock. The breaking is fine if you are bedding it in mortar on the floor, but I don't care for it breaking on a wall.

With utmost respect for Cleveman's knowledge and experience, I would use a cement based tile backer board on the walls. Cement based boards, like Hardibacker, Durock and Wonderboard are simply stronger than Denshield. I have no qualms about Denshield being as water resistant as those other backer boards, it's just that it isn't nearly as strong. So, if someone ius having a bath, and puts their foot up against the tiling to push themselves back in the tub, Denshield is much more likely to break sooner than any of the cement based boards. Hardibacker is the strongest board in my opinion, but it's also the hardest to cut and the heaviest by far.

You don't have to apply a liquid waterproofing membrane on Densshield. And where you wouldn't have the liquid waterproofing, it is easier to install tile on Densshield because the surface doesn't suck the moisture out of the mortar immediately like with Durock.

Yes, but if you paint over your tile backer with the waterproofing membrane, you won't have your thin set drying up (because that water proof membrane doesn't absorb water). What I do is spread thin set on the water proof membrane, and then back butter each tile with thin set. That way, even if the thin set on the wall starts to dry out, it will be re-activated by the fresh wet thin set on the back of the tile.

I use 6X8 inch tiles because they're the largest size that can be comfortably held with one hand. I set the tiles in landscape orientation because it's rare to see that done (even though there's no reason not to) and that allows me to get a very custom look with plain Jane tiles. Whomever sees my tiling immediately recognizes that whomever did it was confident enough in their skills to venture off the well beaten path.

Before I start setting tiles, I'd mark my starting point, and measure off the area I'll be tiling in advance, and then mask off that area with 2 inch wide masking tape. That allows me to spread the thin set on the wall fairly quickly without having to be careful about going over my lines. Then I pull the masking tape off and start back buttering tiles and setting them in place.

I always fasten a piece of straight wood molding to the wall for my first coarse of full tiles. I set all the tiles above that wood molding first, and then remove the wood molding and cut the tiles to fit down to the tub. That way, even if my tub isn't level or even horizontal, my tiling still is.

I would install Densshield on the ceiling as well, and tile the ceiling. If you don't want to tile the ceiling, then use Densshield in place of sheetrock.

I'd be very reluctant to tile the ceiling. Mildew will grow on the grout on that ceiling and it'll be a heck of a job to try and clean that mildew with bleach (or whatever). I don't see a problem using DenShield for the ceiling, skin coating it with joint compound, priming and then painting with a paint specifically made for Bathrooms, like Zinsser's PermaWhite Bathroom paint, which you can buy at Home Depot and other home centers. I'd use that same bathroom paint on the walls as well.

Spend a lot of time laying out the bath. You'll have to plan where you want grab bars and install 2x backing for them. I like to install 4 corner shelves in the tub/shower, along with a soap dish with a handle on it. I like a toilet paper holder which installs on the wall, and towel racks as well.

Agreed. Set out tiles on your floor with spacers between them. Set them out in two rows; one row with the tiles end-to-end and the other row with the tiles set out side-to-side. That way you can measure those rows and know exactly where your tile edges will be on the walls before you start your tiling. (Then, I use 2" wide masking tape to mask off each area I'll be tiling before I mix up my thin set and start tiling.)

In my case, I like to tile the bathroom walls first, then grout, and then seal the grout, and then use double sided tape to attach pieces of straight wood molding to the tiles in the corners, and then stick my corner shelves to the tiling with silicone caulk and masking tape. The wood moldings prevent the shelves from sliding down the wall as the silicone sets up. Ditto for the soap dish. I also like to put a second soap dish high on the back wall so it's out of the shower spray for people that are having showers.

 

[Bondo]

Hardibacker is the strongest board in my opinion, but it's also the hardest to cut and the heaviest by far.

Well,.... Deb, 'n I spent the afternoon surveyin' the situation,.....

The floor plan changed,... No tub though,....

I love the look, 'n feel of the Hardiebacker, Deb says Durock is just fine,...
It'll be one or the other, or both,....

There'll be a wall on the orange line, the door to the right of the light stand,....
The black bucket is the toliet, cabinets in the corner, sink in front of the window, 'n the shower where the level is leanin',....
Finished floor level is the top of the 6x6,....

Gotta L o n g ways to go,....

 

[BigJim]

But it will be really nice when you get through with it.

 

[ToolSeeker]

If the tile goes all the way to the top of wall, tile the ceiling. If it only goes partway up paint the ceiling.

 

[Nestor_Kelebay]

If the tile goes all the way to the top of wall, tile the ceiling. If it only goes partway up paint the ceiling.

If you tile the ceiling, you pretty well need to use an epoxy grout on those ceiling tiles. I'd be concerned that you couldn't effectively seal a cement based grout on a ceiling.

I have 21 bathrooms in my building. In every one of them the tiling goes right up to the ceiling. And, in every case, the ceiling is painted with bathroom paint. None of those bathrooms have any mildew on them that I can't clean off (or remove by replacing the silicone caulk).

 

[Bondo]

In every one of them the tiling goes right up to the ceiling. And, in every case, the ceiling is painted with bathroom paint. None of those bathrooms have any mildew on them that I can't clean off (or remove by replacing the silicone caulk).

Ayuh,.... Thank you, that point came up while Deb, 'n I were discussin' this,....

I'd figured tilin' the ceilin' inside the shower would be more water-proof,...
Deb says she Hates tilin' a ceilin', but would do it,....

Now, I can relay that She's Right,......
I may never hear the end of it, but that's Ok,...

It sure sounds that properly painted is better than tilin',.....

Should I still use backer board, vs: moisture resistant drywall,..??..??

Either, will be primed, 'n painted with whatever is the Proper paints,....

 

[ToolSeeker]

Just use the moisture resistant drywall.

 

[Nestor_Kelebay]

Ayuh,.... Thank you, that point came up while Deb, 'n I were discussin' this,....

I'd figured tilin' the ceilin' inside the shower would be more water-proof,...
Deb says she Hates tilin' a ceilin', but would do it,....

Now, I can relay that She's Right,......
I may never hear the end of it, but that's Ok,...

It sure sounds that properly painted is better than tilin',.....

Should I still use backer board, vs: moisture resistant drywall,..??..??

Either, will be primed, 'n painted with whatever is the Proper paints,....

You CAN use just moisture resistant drywall on your shower ceiling. The problem I'd see there is that mildew can grow into the paper on ordinary drywall and moisture resistant drywall, and possibly into it's gypsum core itself. The problem with drywall of both kinds is that removing the paper weakens the drywall substantially.

If it were me, I would use DenShield on your ceiling. DenShield has a gray acrylic layer on the front that's impermeable to moisture. That gray layer is actually quite tough and not easily damaged. I don't believe that mildew would ever penetrate into that gray layer, and so cleaning up any mildew in future would be a simple matter of scraping off any mildewed areas with a paint scraper, applying fresh joint compound, sanding smooth, priming and painting with a paint specifically made for bathrooms. Most likely tho, with regular drywall, moisture resistant drywall and DenShield, simply dabbing the mildewed areas with a sponge wet with bleach is all you'd ever need to do to kill mildew. And, of course, painting your shower ceiling with a paint specifically made for bathrooms goes without saying.

So, you can use moisture resistant drywall, but if it were me, I'd use DenShield. It's a bit more expensive, but it's no more difficult to work with than drywall. You cut it and install it just like it was drywall. You just have to score that gray acrylic layer on the front a bit deeper than you do drywall drywall paper when cutting it. Other than that, it's no different than installing drywall.

 

[Bondo]

If it were me, I would use DenShield on your ceiling. DenShield has a gray acrylic layer on the front that's impermeable to moisture.

Ayuh,.... Deb, 'n I both like that idea,....

Thanks again,.....

 

[cleveman]

I'm just happy to see a guy tiling his bathroom.

Nestor has some good points.

I'm tiling a bath now, and I'm laying out the individual walls on the floor in the hallway, then numbering the left and right end tiles and laying it up. I'm laying a random bond.

I had another point for you. You are talking about laying on a concrete floor, I believe. I would give some thought to my floor drain for the shower first off.

Good on you that you are doing some research first and thanks for all the contributors. This is how we all learn and others look at it hopefully and learn as well.

 

[Bondo]

I'm just happy to see a guy tiling his bathroom.

Nestor has some good points.

I'm tiling a bath now, and I'm laying out the individual walls on the floor in the hallway, then numbering the left and right end tiles and laying it up. I'm laying a random bond.

I had another point for you. You are talking about laying on a concrete floor, I believe. I would give some thought to my floor drain for the shower first off.

Good on you that you are doing some research first and thanks for all the contributors. This is how we all learn and others look at it hopefully and learn as well.

Ayuh,.... Deb's doin' the tilin',..... I just gotta get it all ready to spread thin-set,....

We've decided to go with a flat heated concrete tiled floors, 'n the shower will be a built pan, 'n curb,....

As for the Research,...
I'm to cheap, or to stupid to Pay anybody to do anything for me,....
I've always figured it out, 'n built it myself,...:wink2: