[jschaben]

Hello,

First Post.

There seems to be so many differing opinions from "google" I figured I would post in here.

Purchasing a home that was smoked heavily in for 8 years. I was wondering what was the best primer for covering nicotine stains and the smell. Some people say Binz which is $40 a gallon, then there are people who swear by the oil based Zinnser which is $88 per 5 gallon bucket.

Any general info for what I should do would be helpful.

I am using sherwin williams [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]paint[/color][/color]. Either the 400 satin or 200 low voc.

Friend of mine with large painting company has account at sherwin williams so I will be paying $18 for the above paints vs. the 40 something a gallon that the everyday consumer uses. That being said, I hope no one has any problem using Sherwin Williams paint over these primers, especially since it is saving me so much money.

thanks

As far as I've heard and experienced, Zinsser BIN is pretty much the Gold standard for stain sealing. I assume the oil based Zinsser product you are referring to is their Cover Stain primer. The label on that even recommends spotting with BIN over heavy stains. Since you are able to pull that big a break on the SW products, I can appreciate you wanting to use as much of it as possible so it may be a question to pose to the people at the SW store.

 

[bk12134]

As far as I've heard and experienced, Zinsser BIN is pretty much the Gold standard for stain sealing. I assume the oil based Zinsser product you are referring to is their Cover Stain primer. The label on that even recommends spotting with BIN over heavy stains. Since you are able to pull that big a break on the SW products, I can appreciate you wanting to use as much of it as possible so it may be a question to pose to the people at the SW store.

For what it's worth to anyone reading..........this may be common knowledge; if it is, disregard.

The rep at Sherwin Williams pretty much said anyone can use a commercial account, they don't check who works there or what not. Find someone who uses an account there and use their business name. It actually helps the painting contractor anyways. It adds to their annual usage and drives down the prices. Do people actually go in and pay 40 bucks for a gallon of paint?

Thanks

 

[Brushjockey]

Stains - Bin. Nicotine- oil primer. Pet smells- Bin. Fire- Bin .

 

[Workaholic]

Bin

I would also add to get the bin tinted so that you have easier coverage on your topcoats.

 

[ltd]

zinsser cover stain:yes: has more body than bin ,im not saying its a joy to use but it a lot better than the bin shellac to use .zinsser recommends cover stain over bin for nicotine

 

[jsheridan]

For what it's worth to anyone reading..........this may be common knowledge; if it is, disregard.

The rep at Sherwin Williams pretty much said anyone can use a commercial account, they don't check who works there or what not. Find someone who uses an account there and use their business name. It actually helps the painting contractor anyways. It adds to their annual usage and drives down the prices. Do people actually go in and pay 40 bucks for a gallon of paint?

Thanks

BK, I think that what you're suggesting technically could be considered theft by deception. At the very least, you could be putting someone in an embarassing situation. Many account holders have designated, authorized signers who are the only ones allowed to sign for purchases. While cash doesn't require a signature, it draws attention, especially since many contractors don't pay cash ever. Also, the regulars who work in the stores know the people from the different companies who come in for paint, so the likelihood that an unknown may be challenged for those reasons is there. While it does pump up a contractor's volume and helps him, it helps no one else but you. I had a customer once, a mason contractor/landlord, who was buying product cash under my account. I found this looking for a particular purchase for other reasons. I was pretty pissed. It may help my purchase volume, but it's a security threat. Who's to say that after two or three cash purchases and establishing a face in the store, he doesn't say charge it? I may have never caught it, since I rarely scour my invoices, and sometimes don't even remember buying particular products or their use, even when I know that I did. It's also a charge against the store's bottom line, from which the manager's profit sharing is calculated, so he has a vested interest. It also hurts the company's bottom line which puts upward pressure on our prices. There are a host of reasons why you're suggestion is wrong, these are but a few. I'm sure that most all contractors would rather not have the volume added if it means doing it your way. They just don't want unauthorized people involved with their accounts. Contractors are offered volume discounts because of the amount of product they buy, which is typical across the trades, and it's justified. Prices of all products, paint included, are not arbitrary numbers. They are extremely calculated, and it includes anticipated discounted volume purchasing. The type of fraud that you are suggesting contributes to that price. I would appreciate your not doing it or suggesting that others do. Okay sport. :wink:Welcome.

 

[user1007]

Do note that you really have to do the prep work in a smoker house to get as much of the brownish/orange tar and other gunk off as you can. After doing a few, I finally got in the habit of calling one of the reputable cleaning companies who came out with a small army, all the tools and cleaners and had at everything. They ended up much cheaper than me doing it. I just told them I wanted a paint prep for all services in a smoker home and they new how to deal with it.

Also with these primers make sure you plan on applying when you have more than adequate ventilation and turn the central system off if you can.

By the way, you should not have any problem applying the SW finish coat product over any of the primers suggested.

 

[ltd]

For what it's worth to anyone reading..........this may be common knowledge; if it is, disregard.

The rep at Sherwin Williams pretty much said anyone can use a commercial account, they don't check who works there or what not. Find someone who uses an account there and use their business name. It actually helps the painting contractor anyways. It adds to their annual usage and drives down the prices. Do people actually go in and pay 40 bucks for a gallon of paint?

Thanks

do people actually go in and pay 40 bucks for a gallon of paint ? well let me think ,yea honest people do :yes:.most all s/w employees no me by name and nobody in the 4 stores i deal with will let anybody me use my account. also to exaggerate a point if i buy 20 thousand worth of paint a year to do x amount of work,then next year theirs 30 thousand dollars of paint and i claim the same amount of work as last year :huh: ok so now the irs wants to know why so much paint and so little labor.in other words dont use my account or ill get the account user police on you:huh:

 

[bk12134]

12345

 

[Workaholic]

EDIT: No reason to quote.

 

[bk12134]

Workaholic: I removed that post b/c the way I replied was inappropriate. I am not telling anyone to deceive or lie to anybody. I specifically asked the company owner and ALSO the manager of the Sherwin Williams location if what I was proposing was OK. I have been in the construction industry for 15 years and have never had an issue with this. We have people buy under our account regularly on a cash basis and our suppliers couldn't care less. I currently work at a company that purchases 1 million + at just one supplier. If the supply house has a problem with it, don't do it.

Once again not trying to deceive anyone, but if the company or the local supplier doesn't care, I still don't see a problem with it.

Sorry about the brash response.

 

[Workaholic]

I'll edit too.

 

[jsheridan]

BK, I'm glad I got to see the remnant of your post prior to Sean's edit. That's fine. If encouraging ethical behavior gets me an f'off, I'll take it. I never asked you not to engage in any behavior, just not to encourage it here. I ended my post with the "okay sport", because you sounded like a kid, not a mature man with fifteen years in the construction business. Part of my logic in that thought was your amazement with the whole discount thing, like it was enlightening, which it wouldn't be for someone with fifteen years. I had a conversation with an SW manager today on this topic. Other than acknowledging it happens, which I also know, he had nothing in common with your thoughts. He frowns upon it, doesn't allow it, and actually had to eat a sizable purchase when someone charged something to a contractor's account, under the very same circumstances I painted. In fact, he finished my story. Further, he said it's definitely against company policy. So whatever goes on in your market is all done with a wink and a nod. You said "I am not telling anyone to deceive or lie to anybody" in your last post, but in a previous post you said "Find someone who uses an account there and use their business name". What is it that distinguishes those two contradictory statements if not a lie or deception? I come to this forum in a forthright way, and attempt to deal honestly with all I encounter. I don't deal unethically in business and I won't engage, or tolerate, unethical advice here. I'm not going to shirk away from addressing it, even if the mods feel I'm inappropriate, even if they choose to ban me for speaking my mind. I don't feel I personally attacked you, I just presented my opinion.

 

[Workaholic]

I don't normally censor my own posts J, but I did so because after the OP's edit I figured with my edit it might disfuse the situation. With that said I completely agree with you and would not and will not let anyone use my account without my permission. If his guy wanted him to use his account he should simply do it for the OP.

 

[bk12134]

BK, I'm glad I got to see the remnant of your post prior to Sean's edit. That's fine. If encouraging ethical behavior gets me an f'off, I'll take it. I never asked you not to engage in any behavior, just not to encourage it here. I ended my post with the "okay sport", because you sounded like a kid, not a mature man with fifteen years in the construction business. Part of my logic in that thought was your amazement with the whole discount thing, like it was enlightening, which it wouldn't be for someone with fifteen years. I had a conversation with an SW manager today on this topic. Other than acknowledging it happens, which I also know, he had nothing in common with your thoughts. He frowns upon it, doesn't allow it, and actually had to eat a sizable purchase when someone charged something to a contractor's account, under the very same circumstances I painted. In fact, he finished my story. Further, he said it's definitely against company policy. So whatever goes on in your market is all done with a wink and a nod. You said "I am not telling anyone to deceive or lie to anybody" in your last post, but in a previous post you said "Find someone who uses an account there and use their business name". What is it that distinguishes those two contradictory statements if not a lie or deception? I come to this forum in a forthright way, and attempt to deal honestly with all I encounter. I don't deal unethically in business and I won't engage, or tolerate, unethical advice here. I'm not going to shirk away from addressing it, even if the mods feel I'm inappropriate, even if they choose to ban me for speaking my mind. I don't feel I personally attacked you, I just presented my opinion.

I apologized for the post in question because it was uncalled for and you didn't deserve it. You have every right to speak your mind. You don't have to accept the apology as you didn't deserve the comment I made, and as I said it was brash and uncalled for.

I am not going to bicker back and forth over the internet over a moot point.

I was not aware of the price of paint because I have never owned a home and have never had to price paint.

What my friend is doing is no different than him going to SW, buying the paint, and bringing to my house. I don't find that unethical. I don't see it hurting any supplier.

To anyone reading. I understand that the Oil Base Primer does a great job covering the nicotine stains, but does it conceal the smell?

It seems that in the end the price of BIN would not be that much more as BIN claims to cover 500 ft/2 vs 350 for the Oil base primer. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of yellow nicotine stains seeping through, I am more concerned about the smell.

Thanks

 

[ltd]

zinsser cover stain:yes: has more body than bin ,im not saying its a joy to use but it a lot better than the bin shellac to use .zinsser recommends cover stain over bin for nicotine

i have used bin for nicotine back before i know any better:huh: ,yea it worked ,but not as good as zinsser cover stain .the company zinsser makes bin and cover stain:yes: . zinsser states for nicotine bin is only rated fair may work but not as reliable.where as cover stain is rated excellent best recommendation:thumbup:. cover stain does not claim to be a vapor barrier. i have never had any problems with smell.i probably do about 3 nicotine places a year:yes:. p/s big box price cover stain about 22 dollars bin about 43dollars

 

[bk12134]

Itd

So what I can gather from this is that you believe that the High Hide Oil Base does fine at covering the smell up?

I am excited to see just how much less it smells like smoke when the people get their belongings out of the house before the cleaning and painting.

Finally, do you guys recommend cleaning the walls with a water and vinegar solution first or should you just primer right over?

Thanks

 

[user1007]

You definitely want to clean as much of the orange/brown crud off the walls as you can. I would not use vinegar because it tosses off the Ph. TSP will do. You may have to mix a bunch of it though. Wear gloves.