[chibabe]

Hello:
I am brand new here and not informed. I'm assessing work to upgrade an outdated bathroom and have read some other posts related to wall tile. I don't know the difference between subfloor and concrete backing? Is that the substance I found beneath the falling plastic tile on the wall beneath the window. It has crumbled and is like sandy powder--I can poke my finger on it and it falls like pouring sand.

Can this be totalling removed and replaced with drywall or something that ceramic tile would adhere to? I can't post a photo now, but can update the post at another time to better describe the structure.

I have also never done a demo/upgrade, so I'm trying to know as much as possible about prep and other hidden elements to factor into materials, cost, etc. I'm counting on you vets to school me!

Thanx!

 

[DIYadam]

Hi there, first off, I'm no expert, but I'll try to help.

How old is the bathroom? What kind of tile is it that is falling off? Any chance there could be asbestos in those stick on tiles that are peeling off?

Anyways, it sounds like you should just rip it down to the studs and redo from the walls up. Use something like cement board or wonderboard in the shower/tub area. That's what I would do.

Adam

 

[oh'mike]

You are describing a plaster wall that has tile over it--and is falling apart.

You will need to remove the tile and old plaster ,down to the studs (2x4s)

Replace the shower mixer valve and any outdated plumbing---then re insulate and add a cement backer board---then a brush on waterproofing (or a membrane)

then add your tile.


Pictures will help----the age of the house,also---Mike----

Look at Jims down stairs bathroom (JimF)-----Mike----

 

[Bud Cline]

Hey Holmes...err-ah Adam, plastic tile doesn't contain any asbestos, but some plaster walls do.

Sounds like a job for a contractor this time.

 

[DIYadam]

Hey Holmes...err-ah Adam, plastic tile doesn't contain any asbestos, but some plaster walls do.

Sounds like a job for a contractor this time.

lol... good to know. But hey, I said I was no expert right? :no:

Learn something new everyday.

 

[Bud Cline]

Adam if you had some Bib overalls you could pass for Holmes...or is that him in the picture?

 

[DIYadam]

Adam if you had some Bib overalls you could pass for Holmes...or is that him in the picture?

It is Mike Holmes in my picture. :yes:

 

[Bud Cline]

It is Mike Holmes in my picture.

Wasn't sure! Haven't seen him in years.
Why would you want that association?
Is it a Canada thing?

 

[DIYadam]

Wasn't sure! Haven't seen him in years.
Why would you want that association?
Is it a Canada thing?

lol I don't know, personally I love watching Holmes on Homes. Not for all the complaining he does about shotty workmanship, but its a great show to learn things, especially for the average DIY'er.

For example, it was Holmes on Homes where I first saw a Kerdi shower install.

 

[Bud Cline]

When the Holmes program first began years ago he was an idiot in bibs swinging a sledge hammer in every damned show. All he did was criticize the work of others, of course the shows producers sought-out those hack jobs to begin with. That's what made the show. I watched for a long time and me being a remodeler and tile contractor for decades saw him for the hack he was back then. I excused all his crap because he was in Canada and I didn't know anything about Canada codes.

He also futzed up every single ceramic tile job he got involved in and I happen to know that Canada has copied the U.S. tile installation recommendations from the Tile Council of North American to the letter. That's when I quit watching the moron.

A few years ago he fell into bed with Schluter Systems who is big in all of southern Canada through all of the Home Depots and getting hooked up with Schluter saved his ass on his tile work.

The guy is still an idiot but he has found a way to get rich by being a loud-mouthed character on TV and finding an audience that just doesn't know about those things and being able to sell his wares to the unsuspecting.

The truth is.......in contracting circles in this country the guy is a joke but he is one step above Bob Vila - a bigger joke.

 

[DIYadam]

When the Holmes program first began years ago he was an idiot in bibs swinging a sledge hammer in every damned show. All he did was criticize the work of others, of course the shows producers sought-out those hack jobs to begin with. That's what made the show. I watched for a long time and me being a remodeler and tile contractor for decades saw him for the hack he was back then. I excused all his crap because he was in Canada and I didn't know anything about Canada codes.

He also futzed up every single ceramic tile job he got involved in and I happen to know that Canada has copied the U.S. tile installation recommendations from the Tile Council of North American to the letter. That's when I quit watching the moron.

A few years ago he fell into bed with Schluter Systems who is big in all of southern Canada through all of the Home Depots and getting hooked up with Schluter saved his ass on his tile work.

The guy is still an idiot but he has found a way to get rich by being a loud-mouthed character on TV and finding an audience that just doesn't know about those things and being able to sell his wares to the unsuspecting.

The truth is.......in contracting circles in this country the guy is a joke but he is one step above Bob Vila - a bigger joke.

Hmm... I can't help but think I was insulted somewhere in all of that? :huh: :laughing: Just kidding.

I do know what you're saying, I like watching any type of show that deals with construction and DIY topics.

 

[Bud Cline]

Hmm... I can't help but think I was insulted somewhere in all of that?

Nope, not at all my intentions.
Now bring me Mike Holmes on a one-on-one basis to talk about ceramic tile and I'll gladly go up against him any time.:yes:

I do know what you're saying, I like watching any type of show that deals with construction and DIY topics.

Just be careful, never drive into deep water.
I shouldn't complain too much about Holmes, hell we have Vila and Johnson and a slew of other quacks in this country. Thank God "Little Miss Huff-n-Puff" is long gone.

 

[chibabe]

Bathroom Reno

Thanx Adam and Mike for your responses. I think the house is 55-60YO so probably not old enough to host asbestos. The tile is pastry pink (EEKS!)

Could that grainy material be cement board beneath the tile? It looks like concrete and that was my suspicion until I began to read about cement board in the forum.

I believe I recall the mention of using thin coat(?) around the tub/shower, but how about on the adjoining wall that houses the window as well? I agree that a contractor is probably the more suitable option for this upgrade, but I'd like to not get crapped on in my own bathroom with pricing. Gaining insight to the extent of the labor and materials will help me with the estimates.

BTW-Big Orange started things off with $4.5G for a tub overlay, $8.5G to replace the tub/walls and floor and $12.5 for a full gut. The area is the standard dimension for the period-ranch 3BR/1 bath...small.

I'm sorry that my camera is broken, so I can't post. Thanks guys for this and future guidance.

 

[oh'mike]

The age of the house and your description of the walls tells me that the walls are plaster and the tub area is cement scratch coat.

This is the basics----demo the old tile and scratch coat down to the studs---

Remove the old tub---a sledge hammer,goggles and gloves--soft steady blows until a crack starts--

more soft blows until it's in pieces.

Re work your old plumbing--add a new Kohler cast iron tub--$360--plus drain $60

Add a new shower/tub mixer $150 and up --Moen/Delta/ Kohler

Replace or sister in new studs to get the walls flat--$50
add blocking for safety grab rails.

Fur out the studs so the 1/2" Durrock meets the old plaster (unless you're gutting the whole place)

Add your Durrock--5 sheets at $8.50

Paint on a water proofer--Redguard or Hydroban--$50 to $100

Install tile--about 77 square foot plus 16 lineal foot of bull nose tile---Price varies--$3.50 a foot is a common cost.

Grout--Silicone caulk--soap dish or corner caddy--grab rails--curtain rod or door.

I think that's about it.---Ask away---Bud is in a silly mood but will kick in with lots of good stuff when you are ready---

Look in the 'how to' section---Bud has a couple of good ones---Preparing a wall for tile--and Mud,what is it.---

Now it's your turn--ask away.-----Mike----

 

[chibabe]

Wow, thanx Mike-that's a mouthful...I'll need to chew a moment to absorb. So, demo is meant to be the most costly. What kind of labor costs am I looking at? Are they trade-driven?

I'm WAY intimidated for DIY attempt.

 

[oh'mike]

I usually work with a helper----We have an entire bathroom demoed to the studs in 4 to 5 hours.

Into the dumpster and vacuumed.

We have a lot of experience and all the right tools. You should be able to demo a tub and surround by your self in a short day.---Mike----

 

[oh'mike]

The cost of rebuilding a bath varies so much by location that even guessing would not be fair.

Labor, access to the site dumpster fees,permit costs and all the rest make price guessing a disservice to others.

The most help I can offer is this----get references,check them---Ask to see a job in progress--

Low bidders are either inexperienced and missed something

or they are going to do a cut corner job

or the want to hook you with the price and change order you into the poor house.----Mike---