DIY Home Improvement Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
i'm looking for some feedback on my bathroom remodel: my bathtub-shower surround.

i'm preparing the bathtub-shower for kerdi-board. i used shims for leveling the 2"x4" studs. the 'long' wall is not load bearing and i cut out a shower niche (roughed in, none of the 2"x4" niche framing is screwed down yet). my thought is to continue the mineral wool up the length of the 'long' wall for sound proofing (otherside of that wall is a bedroom). see photos of the bathtub-shower:


i have a few questions:

custom shower niche out of kerdiboard?
has anyone created their own shower niche box out of kerdiboard? we wanted a bigger shower niche so the schluter pre-made shower niches won't work. i only found 1 video where someone makes a shower niche. im thinking there's a very simple way since i'll have two-by material on all sides: glue back and screw in the 'border' kerdiboard. this seems the most straight forward and easiest to execute.

kerdiboard 'hanging' order?
is there a particular order in which i should install the kerdiboard? for insance, do i install the 'long' wall first then the front and back?

kerdiboard seams: horizontal or vertical?
should i hang the kerdiboard so that the 'long' boards are going left-right (i.e. horizontal) so that the first seam will be 4-feet up from the tub's edge? or do i install the boards up-down (i.e. vertical) so there's one seam that starts at the tub's lip to the ceiling? i'm partial to the 'horizontal' install since it would raise one long point-of-failure as far as water intrusion goes. not sure if there are other considerations otherwise

kerdiboard screws: edges?
i couldn't find explicit documentation from schluter on how close to the edge of the board screws need to be. most videos seem to show 1 or 2 inches of the washer from the edge of the board (e.g. corners, transition kerdiboard to drywall

any pro tips for putting up kerdiboard and then tile over it (subway tile)? i have seen all the schluter videos and others i can find so generally understand the process. since this is my first time working with kerdi (and because it was $110/ 4'x8' board, i'm going to write out all the steps as precise and fine-resolution as i can, so any feedback will be greatly appreciated
 

·
Naildriver
Joined
·
10,809 Posts
That sure is a big honkin' niche :eek: Do you plan on subdividing it? What are you putting in the niche that will take up that much space? Most shampoos are only 12" tall or so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
That sure is a big honkin' niche :eek: Do you plan on subdividing it? What are you putting in the niche that will take up that much space? Most shampoos are only 12" tall or so.
nope, no planning on subdividing it.

i was going back and forth, it's quite a few inches taller than most items we would put in there. i can be convinced to reduce the size by a few multiples of 1.5-inches but why not have a bigger niche? i have to make a cutout in the kerdiboard for the niche so that means i dont have to use extra kerdiboard for the 'back' of the niche, only the sides. it's not a load bearing wall so the structural part of it isn't an issue. more square footage for tiling the niche (and time and labor involved; i havent ever done this before).

one issue that may be a problem is the top border/shelf that will be 1/2" or 3/4" stone/quartz. i'm thinking adhesive and the side 'trimmers' will hold the top border up but i'm not sure if that's the case.

are there any reasons to not go with a larger niche? some people have big trucks or big lawn mowers. i have a big niche.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,820 Posts
There are 2 kinds of "custom" niches. The first type, which is what you seem to be talking about, is simply a pre-installed niche that is the size of your choosing. The second type is one that you install while tiling. The reason this is important is that aesthetically, you have no idea ahead of time how that tile is going to line up and you can get some really ugly cuts of tile.

IMO, the first picture is a mess. This could have been a premade niche, it could have been a "custom" pre-installed niche, there's no way to tell.

The second picture is one of mine. I prefer this method. Notice how all the tiles (above and below of course) are full tiles, and the niche edges line up perfectly with the grout lines.

There is no way to do the second way unless you build them on the fly. The niche must fit between 2 studs or otherwise must be framed out East/West to your size ahead of time. But you can put in the top and bottom studs when you get to a stopping point in your tile, when you know exactly where the grout line is going to land.

633739
633740
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,820 Posts
Regarding your questions about Kerdi, it makes not difference. The waterproofing does not work like roofing shingles. It makes no difference how you overlap them. Just do it however is more convenient for you.

For screwing, basically you just want the Kerdi held tight, so obviously you have to use their washers. It doesn't really matter how close to the edge you get, but normally the washer should not be past the outer edge. When fastening 2 boards side by side, you just use one screw/washer, and it goes right in the seam between the 2 boards, so that it's shared and holds them both. You don't put one right on the edge of one board and another on the edge of the other board.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,615 Posts
There are 2 kinds of "custom" niches. The first type, which is what you seem to be talking about, is simply a pre-installed niche that is the size of your choosing. The second type is one that you install while tiling. The reason this is important is that aesthetically, you have no idea ahead of time how that tile is going to line up and you can get some really ugly cuts of tile.

IMO, the first picture is a mess. This could have been a premade niche, it could have been a "custom" pre-installed niche, there's no way to tell.

The second picture is one of mine. I prefer this method. Notice how all the tiles (above and below of course) are full tiles, and the niche edges line up perfectly with the grout lines.

There is no way to do the second way unless you build them on the fly. The niche must fit between 2 studs or otherwise must be framed out East/West to your size ahead of time. But you can put in the top and bottom studs when you get to a stopping point in your tile, when you know exactly where the grout line is going to land.

View attachment 633739 View attachment 633740
Very very nice Jeffnc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
There are 2 kinds of "custom" niches. The first type, which is what you seem to be talking about, is simply a pre-installed niche that is the size of your choosing. The second type is one that you install while tiling. The reason this is important is that aesthetically, you have no idea ahead of time how that tile is going to line up and you can get some really ugly cuts of tile.

IMO, the first picture is a mess. This could have been a premade niche, it could have been a "custom" pre-installed niche, there's no way to tell.

The second picture is one of mine. I prefer this method. Notice how all the tiles (above and below of course) are full tiles, and the niche edges line up perfectly with the grout lines.

There is no way to do the second way unless you build them on the fly. The niche must fit between 2 studs or otherwise must be framed out East/West to your size ahead of time. But you can put in the top and bottom studs when you get to a stopping point in your tile, when you know exactly where the grout line is going to land.
Regarding your questions about Kerdi, it makes not difference. The waterproofing does not work like roofing shingles. It makes no difference how you overlap them. Just do it however is more convenient for you.

For screwing, basically you just want the Kerdi held tight, so obviously you have to use their washers. It doesn't really matter how close to the edge you get, but normally the washer should not be past the outer edge. When fastening 2 boards side by side, you just use one screw/washer, and it goes right in the seam between the 2 boards, so that it's shared and holds them both. You don't put one right on the edge of one board and another on the edge of the other board.
fantastic, thanks. yes, i tried to calculate ahead of time to get ball park positioning of the niche. among the complicating factors was the fact that we're using the same tile inside the niche as the reset of the wall, since we were going to have a border (quartz, marble; 3/4" thick) i thought it would be a wash to line things up.

i agree that having tile lines match up without having to make cuts is ideal. in the end i was a bit overwhelmed with all the decision making with the rest of the bathroom that i threw my hands up and just went with the ball park calculations that i made. i just hope i dont have to make cuts like the photo you showed!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
I recently did my first-ever shower tile and figuring out the niche placement was one of the hardest parts, but I took my time and measured everything out ahead of time and triple-checked all my measurements and calculations. I had to figure out the exact placement first because I wasn't using Kerdi, I used cement board coated with AquaDefense so it all had to be in place and the AquaDefense painted on before tiling could start.

633796
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,820 Posts
That's a nice job. Actually you don't have to build it first, you just have to build it before that row below goes in. So in your case, you can install the bottom 2 rows, then stop and place the next tile on spacers and mark it off. That way you don't have to do any actual measuring. You now have enough room to build the niche in and waterproof it "on the fly".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Thanks, I'm pretty happy with it. I guess i could have done it that way. It would have added time to the job, but the entire bathroom took me 4 months so an extra day or two would have been no big deal. I'll probably do it that way on my next one if I decide to tile it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
I'm not clear on how it would be faster - I'd have to build the niche and mesh/thinset the corners, let it dry, then apply a coat of AquaDefense and let it dry, then another coat of AD and let it dry before continuing to tile.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,489 Posts
But while letting stuff dry you could be tiling the side walls of the alcove, and dealing with the cutouts for the plumbing, etc. Unless that all took you less time than letting the stuff dry?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,820 Posts
I'm not clear on how it would be faster - I'd have to build the niche and mesh/thinset the corners, let it dry, then apply a coat of AquaDefense and let it dry, then another coat of AD and let it dry before continuing to tile.
You haven't listed anything that doesn't need to be done either way.

If you're talking about "calendar time", then simply do other things that you need to do before returning to it. (And by the way, if you used Kerdi, you wouldn't need to wait for anything to dry, nor would you need 2 coats of anything.) Calender time, or number of trips to a property, is not usually an issue for homeowners like it is for contractors. So there are some home improvement projects where I'd have to watch my calendar time, but a homeowner wouldn't. I don't think this is one of those cases though.

If you're talking about total number of hours, it should be the same.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Agreed - I'm just a homeowner so I'm not too worried about the time and I did mention that had I used Kerdi I might have approached it differently. It was my first shower tile job so all those little efficiencies get lost in just trying to do a good job the right way. I don't want to hijack the thread - I'll definitely take all this into account on my next one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,820 Posts
You're not hijacking, it's good to go over this. But really I don't see why you'd approach it differently for any method other than Kerdi. I only mentioned it because you were talking about drying time. But as far as I can imagine, with any method for building your shower, you can build the niche when you get up to it (one tile width away).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Agreed - I'm just a homeowner so I'm not too worried about the time and I did mention that had I used Kerdi I might have approached it differently. It was my first shower tile job so all those little efficiencies get lost in just trying to do a good job the right way. I don't want to hijack the thread - I'll definitely take all this into account on my next one.
glad to have discussions around it for future reference bathroom remodels.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top