[jp7794]

Hello Everyone.

This is our first full year in a 800 sq. foot condo on Lake Michigan in northern Wisconsin. It has six baseboard heaters and we aren't sure if they are going to kill us with all the dust they seem to create or financially break us with the electric bills.

In regards to dust, we have cleaned them with a sprayed soap solution and the dust just keeps coming. Dust is not an issue when the heaters are off as we proven this fall with a trip out of town. Perhaps static electricity?

As most know they are also extremely inefficient. Our last electric bill was the one that put us over the edge on these. They are going off and we will use space heaters until we find the better solution.

Which is the main purpose for the question. I am asking for members opinions on what else we could do. The only big caveat is that we have no gas available!

Thank you in advance.

 

[surferdude2]

Baseboard heaters and portable electric space heaters work the same way. They use a heated resistance wire to produce heat. Cost the same to produce the same amount of heat, no difference there.

Neither one will, produce dust. That is physically impossible. The dust is coming from some other source. It may well be getting circulated through the baseboard heaters but they do not produce it.

As for some other method of heating you may consider a wall mounted slit system heat pump that will also provide cooling. Google for those and decide.

 

[Bud9051]

Hi jp, one possibility is the dust is coming from outside. Stack effect inside our homes where the cold outside air pushes in the lower portions of our homes and forces the warm air up and out the upper portions. The detail is that all homes leak air and it is a lot. A typical home will replace ALL of the inside air every 3 hour, it varies with temperature and wind and can be more at times. But all of that air carries a lot of dust with it and a common place for it to leak in is at the wall to floor area right behind those heaters. And when the heaters are on it further increases the infiltration from behind them.

More explanation if needed.

Bud

 

[user_12345a]

A mini-split heatpump capable of maintaining full capacity in very cold weather could cut your heating bills by half or more.

 

[CodeMatters]

Confusing efficiency with expense. Electric heaters, baseboard or otherwise, are
100% efficient. Depending where one lives however they can still be much more
expensive to run than, say, a mid efficiency gas furnace.
A reasonably cost effective alternative would be a wall mount propane heater
that exhausts through the wall behind it. Cozy is popular brand. I put a nat gas
version in a rental about 6 years ago and still happy I did.

 

[user_12345a]

Propane isn't necessarily much cheaper than electricity and the price is very volatile.

Sure - electric heat is 100% efficient, but the power plants sure aren't. More efficient to burn fuel directly or use a heatpump.

 

[Chris616]

Agreed with what others have posted. Any electric resistance heater (baseboard or space heater) is going to be as inefficient as another, so switching to space heaters isn’t going to address your utility bill. The only difference (worse) will be a heater that uses some of the electricity to create light or uses a fan to distribute the heat.

Your only other electric option is to use a heat pump, which uses the electricity to move heat from one location (outside or underground) to the living space. Electric resistance heat has a “coefficient of performance” (COP) of 1, meaning an input of one kilowatt of energy produces a heat equivalent of 1 kilowatt. Heat pumps can deliver a COP of between 2-5, depending on the temperature of the source of the heat. So 1 kilowatt of electricity input will produce between 2-5 kilowatts of heat equivalent. You have to trade off the capital cost of the heat pump against the lower utility bills to see if it is cost-effective.

As others have written, the baseboard heaters aren’t the source of the dust. I think that you’re using an incorrect cause and effect. It isn’t because the heaters are off while you’re away that the dust doesn’t accumulate. It’s because the condo occupants aren’t there opening windows, shedding dead skin, tracking in dirt on shoes and walking around stirring it all up so that it settles on surfaces. Our house gets just as dusty in summer (no heat or air conditioning on) as it does in winter (heat on), but when we return from vacation in the summer (no heat on) or the winter (heat on) the house is just as clean as when we left.

Chris

 

[Chris616]

My curiosity has got the best of me. Just how many kilowatts of electricity are you using in an 800 ft2 condo? Are there occupied units in the building above, below and beside you? I’m trying to understand how much exterior wall surface there is in your condo.

Chris

 

[lenaitch]

Whatever solutions you consider will likely be dependent on what your Board and state condo laws permit.

 

[surferdude2]

Turn everything off and go look at your meter. If it still indicates usage, call it in to the AHJ.

 

[jp7794]

Thanks everyone. I did not think the heaters were the problem with the dust either, but turn them on and dust magically appears overnight. A very fine dust that is first noticeable on black plastics. Very strange.

I have someone coming the first of next month to give me a bid on a heat pump. I have a couple oil radiant heaters and they will work until a permanent solution is implemented.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

you mentioned northern Wisconsin. i highly recommend you make sure you're getting a regionally appropriate heat pump. whatever options are proposed by the contractor, take a look at the performance tables and see what the unit's cold weather performance is like. I'd be looking for a proper load calc (can be verified against your kWh consumption), and personally I'd consider slightly upsizing a 2 stage unit with a heat pump aware T-stat or inverter unit (mini split or traditional split).
just my $0.02.

 

[spitz1234]

Is you condo cooled? If so how?

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[jp7794]

No AC.

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[spitz1234]

I would look at a Mitsubishi Hyper Heat ductless split. They do very well in colder climates on the heat side. And you will have some cooling on a humid July day. Set your baseboard a few degrees below your ductless setpoint.

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[spitz1234]

Where are you at? My relatives had a place in Armstrong Creek. And I know others in Oconto county.

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[carmusic]

I would look at a Mitsubishi Hyper Heat ductless split. They do very well in colder climates on the heat side. And you will have some cooling on a humid July day. Set your baseboard a few degrees below your ductless setpoint.

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that's what i have in my house in canada (15k btu) and it work very well over -5F to heat the entire uplevel of my 1200ft home, under -5F the electric baseboards needs to go on

 

[spitz1234]

.

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[Old Thomas]

Electric resistance heaters are 100% efficient, but costly to run. An electric heat pump is cheaper to run but will not work in severe cold temps in northern Wisconsin. Then an auxiliary electric heating coil will kick on, leaving you with expensive resistance heat. A few new high tech electric heaters are cheaper to run, but the are expensive and high tech, subject to complicated problems. To heat for less money and with simplicity, you need a different fuel.

 

[surferdude2]

A geo-thermal heat pump installation would work but it's pretty expensive up front and the ROI takes several years even with the incentives, assistance and credits that are usually available.

Geo-Thermal