[dharmabum]

Hello, I am wanting to build a patio cover for my guest house. At first, I was going to attach the ledger board to the stucco but after some consideration, I am thinking of making it freestanding. The only issue is that there is already an existing slab of concrete. Is there a way to make it freestanding and not dig into the concrete to create the footing? Are there special post brackets for this scenario? Maybe concrete piers?

thx
jim

 

[Daniel Holzman]

I am really confused by your post. Are you building a patio, which usually means concrete or pavers on soil? Or are you building a deck, which usually means a wooden structure on piers above the ground? Or are you building a roof over your guest house? I take it from your last sentence that there is an existing concrete slab, and you want to know if you can put posts directly on the slab.

Generally posts for supporting a deck must be constructed on a proper foundation, which generally means a poured concrete support that reaches down to frost line. Perhaps you can start by telling us where you live, and what the frost line is. If you do not know the frost line in your area, it would be a good idea to talk to your building inspector. It would be a good idea to talk to the building inspector anyway, since the required foundation for posts is usually controlled by local code enforcement.

 

[funfool]

I would attach it if you can. A free standing patio cover has very little chance of surviving without some tricky bracing.
Which essentially takes away the advantage of usability of a free standing structure.
Let me post a couple pics, built one last week. It looks like it is free standing, but is anchored to two different buildings.
I want to show you what I did to anchor it and may give you some ideas.

First photo, see I am dealing with stucco siding, I just cut a slot into siding to slide the beam in and attach it to house framing .... And patio cover is 16'x24' ... 14' down I did same thing on that end.
Will keep it from back and forth lateral movement.
Not exactly pretty, but has potential to put a lattice roof over it ... make it look like you meant to do it.

second photo, That is just attached to a storage shed in the back. It is not 16' wide, is only one way to utilize it, run the brace on a diagonal and it stops side to side movement on that end.

3rd, photo is a problem child. Is only a 6' 2x4 that stops the side to side movement at that end, we just tossed it in there to prove it will stop the movement.
Think we will have to build a wall there or something similar, then turn the 40 year old door around to open in other direction so you not walking into a wall.
Door wont survive so we just added a change order to cost of project.
But we need this bracing to support a patio cover. Only other option is to cross brace the post, then may as well have walls and a doorway and turn it into a garage.

Just 3 different ways I have used to brace a free standing, maybe you can use or improve on them for your situation.

 

[funfool]

cheated me on 2 photos
http://i49.tinypic.com/27zckmp.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/2q3nayc.jpg

Seems to big to upload, and to tired or lazy to resize :whistling2:

 

[dharmabum]

It is for a patio cover, not a deck and I live in phoenix. The patio cover would be over the existing concrete slab which is approx 17 feet and 6.5 inches wide and approx 20 feet in length. The weight factor would be nill, no snow and hardly any rainfall. I was thinking of putting lattice tubing on top. I will post some pics later of the guest house later and it will make more sense.

 

[SeniorSitizen]

No trouble here understanding the project.

Free standing all the way. Just go outside the present parameters and set posts then install a tiled outer border on to new concrete at the correct elevation to finish the outer edge out to the post + some. Your new tiled edge will be the same elevation as the old concrete.

 

[dharmabum]

It is for a patio cover, not a deck and I live in phoenix. The patio cover would be over the existing concrete slab which is approx 17 feet and 6.5 inches wide and approx 20 feet in length. The weight factor would be nill, no snow and hardly any rainfall. I was thinking of putting lattice tubing on top. I will post some pics later of the guest house later and it will make more sense.

I uploaded 4 photos of the guest house. For the attachment scenerio, I was thinking of attaching the ledger 10 feet high and about 2" in from the side. Then have the rafters (2 x 8's) project outward approx 15'.5" onto a 4 x 8 beam and that will sit on 2 either 4 x 4 or 6 x 6 posts bolted to the cement. As for freestanding, the only think I can think of is to cement the posts outside of the slab (see PB190008) and then have another set of posts set inside brackets and then bolted onto the cement, about .5" to a foot away from the structure. the roof wouldn't be shingled, i was thinking of lattice tubing or something of the sort.

 

[AndyGump]

By the IRC (International Residential Code) for 2009, though it seems that Phoenix is already on 2012(?) you can put up a structure like you want on the slab no worries.

I won't design it here for you but it can be done.

Andy.

 

[dharmabum]

By the IRC (International Residential Code) for 2009, though it seems that Phoenix is already on 2012(?) you can put up a structure like you want on the slab no worries.

I won't design it here for you but it can be done.

Andy.

thx. are you saying for both attached and freestanding.

 

[AndyGump]

thx. are you saying for both attached and freestanding.

Yes I am.

Andy.

 

[dharmabum]

what post, beam and rafter scenario would work best if it will be 13' & 6.5" wide x 15.5' long or 13' & 6.5" x 20' long. I was originally going with 4x4 posts, 4x8 for the beams, and rafters are 2x8. again, this is for phoenix (no snow, minimal rain, high heat) and the top will be some sort of lattice tubing. possibly some kind of vine on top (cats claw). probably will be freestanding with simpson strong tie 4x4 or 6x6 standoff post bases. Since I have never built one of these, I don't know if the 4x4's will look weird versus the 6x6 posts. i am pretty confident that the 4x4's will be strong enough due to the no snow factor, etc..

thx
jim









thx

 

[AndyGump]

I am sorry, I just can not do free design.

I can suggest certain general things like it can be done via code but not specifics.

Andy.

 

[funfool]

Let me clarify, I am not worried about snow load in Albuquerque, it is wind I am worried about.
You live in Arizona, ....
Same point is, how do you build a roof on spindly little legs sticking up out of nothing?
If you google gazebo pics.
Will see several examples of free standing decks.
You will see that each picture has a rail connecting each post.
What you said is you want a free standing patio cover.

I am saying is no such thing as a free standing patio cover.
You some how attach some 4"x4" post to existing concrete, for that size I would think 6 post, 3 on each side.
Is nothing wrong with this, then you add a rail in between each post and will kinda make it sturdy.

You want free standing .... not really possible, need to start getting creative on how to hide and give the illusion of free standing .... or rephrase your question.
But in the wind, a 16'x20' structure has little chance of surviving.

 

[dharmabum]

I am sorry, I just can not do free design.

I can suggest certain general things like it can be done via code but not specifics.

Andy.

right, thx for your time andy.

 

[dharmabum]

Let me clarify, I am not worried about snow load in Albuquerque, it is wind I am worried about.
You live in Arizona, ....
Same point is, how do you build a roof on spindly little legs sticking up out of nothing?
If you google gazebo pics.
Will see several examples of free standing decks.
You will see that each picture has a rail connecting each post.
What you said is you want a free standing patio cover.

I am saying is no such thing as a free standing patio cover.
You some how attach some 4"x4" post to existing concrete, for that size I would think 6 post, 3 on each side.
Is nothing wrong with this, then you add a rail in between each post and will kinda make it sturdy.

You want free standing .... not really possible, need to start getting creative on how to hide and give the illusion of free standing .... or rephrase your question.
But in the wind, a 16'x20' structure has little chance of surviving.

sorry, freestanding in the sense that it is not attached to the house in anyway. kind of like this this

http://woodsshop.com/Plans/Patio-Cover/LatticePatioCoverPlans.htm

i am gonna have the lattice be on top as well. there will be no shingles, tiles, etc.. and of course there would be bracings, etc..