[Zeigh]

Hello,

If money wasn't an option (or you didn't have a building inspector breathing down your neck), would you upgrade to arc fault circuit breakers (AFCI)?

I am a retired firefighter who has seen more than my share of electrical fires. The AFCI technology caught my eye years ago and I have been watching the reliability mature. It looks as though AFCI's have reached a low enough level of false trips that it might be worth it for me to upgrade, even though I am a techno geek with more microchips than sense. HA! My current remodel does not require AFCI's per local code, but it would be easy to upgrade my whole AC panel. (I have already noticed some marginally professional electrical work in various places of my 17 year old home.)

So, what are the opinions out there of professionals and homeowners who have done their own electrical work? While this is a hotly discussed topic, I haven't quite seen the question asked from a voluntary standpoint. Do you feel that the safety benifits verses frustration of a false trips of AFCI's are worth it?


Peace,
Dr. Z.

 

[MrElectricianTV]

Hello,

If money wasn't an option (or you didn't have a building inspector breathing down your neck), would you upgrade to arc fault circuit breakers (AFCI)?

I am a retired firefighter who has seen more than my share of electrical fires. The AFCI technology caught my eye years ago and I have been watching the reliability mature. It looks as though AFCI's have reached a low enough level of false trips that it might be worth it for me to upgrade, even though I am a techno geek with more microchips than sense. HA! My current remodel does not require AFCI's per local code, but it would be easy to upgrade my whole AC panel. (I have already noticed some marginally professional electrical work in various places of my 17 year old home.)

So, what are the oppinions out there of professionals and homeowners who have done their own electrical work? While this is a hotly discussed topic, I haven't quite seen the question asked in this manner. Do you feel that the safety benifits verses frustration of a false trips of AFCI's are worth it?

An AFCI device costs around $50.00. How much is the average cost to repair the damage after a fire?

 

[Zeigh]

An AFCI device costs around $50.00. How much is the average cost to repair the damage after a fire?

Hey, I get the point. The same could be said about fire sprinklers, which I endorse when fesable in construction. The opposing argument with AFCI's concerns the frustration of false trips and with fire sprinklers leaking and/or causing more water damage than fire damage when there is a fire station within a good response time to save the home.

It is a tough question. Are the safety benefits worth it in the long run and/or gamble?

BTW, if I upgrade, I will be purchasing the latest model of General Electric combination AFCI's (THQL1115AF2 and THQL1120AF2). A combination AFCI tests series and parallel arcs at a very low current level. An old local electrician that originally hated AFCI's now only recommends theses.


Peace,
Dr. Z.

 

[Habeed]

Hey, I get the point. The same could be said about fire sprinklers, which I endorse when fesable in construction. The opposing argument with AFCI's concerns the frustration of false trips and with fire sprinklers leaking and/or causing more water damage than fire damage when there is a fire station within a good response time to save the home.

It is a tough question. Are the safety benefits worth it in the long run and/or gamble?

On these forums, there's a lot more posting and activity for this particular topic. I'm not an electrician myself, but to summarize what people on those forums usually say : most of them argue that there's essentially no data on the precise number of fires an AFCI would save versus their cost. They are very expensive and only protect against some kinds of arcs, and certain motor designs cause false trips among other things. (so the AFCI to your fridge can go out)

Another complaint is that they don't protect against electrocution - for that you need GFCI and these "combination" breakers are not GFCI. The general feeling on those forums is that this is a money grabbing scam on behalf of manufacturers, and that certain kinds of AFCI available now are actually scams because their electronics have been messed with to prevent false trips which also means they don't actually stop arc faults.

 

[Oso954]

Another complaint is that they don't protect against electrocution - for that you need GFCI and these "combination" breakers are not GFCI.

You are either repeating old info, or you are confused by the terms.

The term CAFCI (combination arc fault circuit interupter) indicates that it detects series arcing, in addition to the parallel arcing that the original AFCIs detected.

There are "combination breakers" (typically called Dual Function Breakers by the Mfgs) which do provide both CAFCI and GFCI protection, in addition to the over-current function.

 

[Habeed]

You are either repeating old info, or you are confused by the terms.

The term CAFCI (combination arc fault circuit interupter) indicates that it detects series arcing, in addition to the parallel arcing that the original AFCIs detected.

There are "combination breakers" (typically called Dual Function Breakers by the Mfgs) which do provide both CAFCI and GFCI protection, in addition to the over-current function.

Point to you. TLDR, if it doesn't say GFCI on the package- and the one the OP is talking about doesn't - it won't protect from a shock, just a fire in some situations.

 

[Zeigh]

Confirmation:

I already have or installed GFCI units in the first outlet of a circuit branch where indicated by code (places where standing water might likely be or extension cords used with power tools). No need to pay more money for the dual function circuit breakers.


Peace,
Dr. Z.

 

[gregzoll]

So far they have decreased the number of Fire Calls for Fire Departments for fires caused by faulty electrical.

If local code requires them on new Branch circuits or when extending an existing one. You have to follow the rules.

 

[gregzoll]

False trips are not because of the AFCI. It is because either someone has plugged something in that is already failing, has been damaged. Or they try to make changes to the Branch circuit and cause the trip.

If the AFCI trips. It is doing its job as designed.

 

[Zeigh]

False trips are not because of the AFCI. It is because either someone has plugged something in that is already failing, has been damaged. Or they try to make changes to the Branch circuit and cause the trip.

If the AFCI trips. It is doing its job as designed.

That old electrician I mentioned earlier reported that he had seen allot of false trips with AFCI's and paddle fans (ceiling and box fans). He further stated that the latest AFCI models seem to be more reliable in theses circumstances.


Peace,
Dr. Z.

 

[Arrow3030]

AFCI's are a good thing IMO. You may want to check prices. I used AF/GFCI breakers recently and we're 2/3 the cost of an arc fault. I also recommend getting a breaker with a trip indicator.

 

[dmxtothemax]

There would seem to be still some small number of incompatibility issues
with some appliances and some AFCI's.
But as time goes on they will find solutions for this as well.
But to say if it trips an afci its faulty or going faulty is NOT true
at least not 100% of the time.
But I think that the fact that they work probably 90% of the time.
must surely over come the other 10% of the time when it an
issue of incompatability.