[southernxp]

So I decided to turn the AC on this weekend and only the blower started. I'm pretty sure I can get the compressor going when the parts store opens Tuesday.

That being said the system is past it's prime. I haven't used the gas furnaces in years. We have an electric water heater so screw the pass through charges for 8 months we don't heat.

To the point I want update with an eye to selling. To that end I am thinking about whole house ductless diy MrCool. The online reviews are solid but I was wondering if anyone has first hand experience with this brand or Ingram's Water & Air

 

[southernxp]

And what determines DIY? The only difference I see is the ones considered diy are 115v and the "professional" ones are 230. I can wire some more ganged 30 amp circuits for a better deal

 

[iamrfixit]

The DIY version has screw together, pre-charged, refrigerant lines and the lines are a fixed length. That means when they're too long you end up with a big coil of tubing stashed somewhere. The pro install version the lines need to be cut to fit and brazed. Then has to be leak checked and vacuumed down and the charge checked.

One of the guys at work installed the diy in his garage, lasted about a year and quit. Last I knew he was still trying to find someone who would even work on it. I'd look for a higher quality brand that is better supported by a local installer.

 

[user_12345a]

contractors here say the pre-charged line connections are prone to leaking - so you should really avoid a diy style mini-split.

 

[southernxp]

Well not what I wanted to hear. Are mini split systems still really expensive? My experience is contractors typically charge at least double what the hardware costs.

 

[user_12345a]

alpine home air does sell some pro-install stuff - i believe they sell Panasonic.

go on there and check pricing.

problem is the vacuum pump, scale, gauges, etc are pricey and you need a epa license in the states to legally do the work and buy refrigerant.

 

[roughneck]

Minis cover a wide verity of needs. Many are installed as secondary conditioning, such as offices, IT closets or bonus rooms. For these purposes the cheap DIY grade minis are likely fine. But if the equipment is the primary source of heating and cooling, you should invest in a more supported brand that will support the equipment for many years to come. Brands such as Mitsubishi, Samsung, and Daikin will do this.
Do not get units with precharged lines. Not only do the connections leak, but the extra coiled lineset you’ll have is unsightly and can cause problems if not coiled properly.
If your doing the whole house, look into a ducted minisplit or even VRF.

 

[southernxp]

It looks like you don't need a license to buy R410A. I know two welders. How close to brazing is welding?

 

[roughneck]

Legally you need to be licensed to buy and handle R410A.

https://www.epa.gov/section608/refrigerant-sales-restriction

Brazing and welding are not one in the same. If you braze, you should also flow nitrogen through the lines to prevent forming carbon inside the piping that will contaminate the system.
You’ll also need nitrogen for leak testing, and a vacuum pump and micron gauge for evacuation.

 

[user_12345a]

it's different - brazing uses a filler material.

best to practice brazing pipes before attempting an install.

I believe a lot of mini-splits are flared instead of brazed though. It's a tight metal on metal seal held together by metal nut.

 

[southernxp]

Legally you need to be licensed to buy and handle R410A.

https://www.epa.gov/section608/refrigerant-sales-restriction

Brazing and welding are not one in the same. If you braze, you should also flow nitrogen through the lines to prevent forming carbon inside the piping that will contaminate the system.
You’ll also need nitrogen for leak testing, and a vacuum pump and micron gauge for evacuation.

Ok from looking on Amazon it sounded like you didn't need a license. Maybe my welder friends know hvac people.

 

[roughneck]

Make sure they are knowledgeable and know proper procedures. Lots of hacks and Gypsies. They take your money and run, and your left with a mess of a system to fix.

 

[southernxp]

The one welder has a really good reputation. If he could get me a friend discount it would be reliable.

 

[roughneck]

Do you plan on buying the equipment yourself and hiring someone to install it?

 

[southernxp]

That is what I was thinking. But I would want to talk to the installer first

 

[roughneck]

I’d highly suggest against doing that.
Either buy it and install it yourself. Or hire out a company to supply and install the equipment.
If you buy it and hire out the work, you’ll probably get someone undesirable. That probably doesn’t know much about the equipment. And you’ll either get an extremely limited warranty or no warranty at all.
What seems like a way to save some money, could easily cost you much more then hiring a contractor to do everything.

 

[user_12345a]

Once you include the $1000-$2000+ required to buy gauges, refrigerant, micron gauge, scale, torches, nitrogen tank and regulator, recovery machine, etc the price of a diy install could really approach that of a professional install with the equipment included.

It may only make sense to invest in the tools if you have multiple properties with stuff that needs service.

 

[southernxp]

Again not what I wanted to hear but probably what I needed to hear. I'm going to be getting quotes from reputable professionals this week. Luckily this house was once a duplex with two separate hvac systems. We have barely used the main house system over the years. Both of them were old when we bought in 2002. Of course the bedroom one failed but and I did manage to get it running today. The compressor made a horrible grinding sound. So silver lining we are getting a way more efficient system. And we are not desperate to get it done this week.

 

[bfrabel]

Most of the things that 12345a says that you need, are not really needed to install a mini-split. I doubt he's ever installed one, otherwise he'd know that they are NOT supposed be brazed upon (due to the lack of a filter drier) and that they always come pre-charged with refrigerant. This means you don't need the torch and you usually don't need a recovery machine or a scale.

If you're working with pre-charged linesets all you really need is a crescent wrench to tighten the lineset nuts.

If you don't have a pre-charged lineset (or if you screw up and need to cut the pre-charged lineset) then it does get a little more involved and then you do need a bunch of extra stuff like a vacuum pump, micron gauge, and a gauge-set. So if this is the case then it probably would be worth looking for help from a qualified hvac tech.

I realize that you are getting some pros out to give you some options, and I'm happy to hear that. That probably is the way to go. I just wanted to point out that mini-splits slowly are becoming DIY friendly, and it can be a job that can be done by a homeowner if they get the right kit and can follow directions.

 

[roughneck]

Most of the things that 12345a says that you need, are not really needed to install a mini-split. I doubt he's ever installed one, otherwise he'd know that they are NOT supposed be brazed upon (due to the lack of a filter drier) and that they always come pre-charged with refrigerant. This means you don't need the torch and you usually don't need a recovery machine or a scale.

If you're working with pre-charged linesets all you really need is a crescent wrench to tighten the lineset nuts.

If you don't have a pre-charged lineset (or if you screw up and need to cut the pre-charged lineset) then it does get a little more involved and then you do need a bunch of extra stuff like a vacuum pump, micron gauge, and a gauge-set. So if this is the case then it probably would be worth looking for help from a qualified hvac tech.

I realize that you are getting some pros out to give you some options, and I'm happy to hear that. That probably is the way to go. I just wanted to point out that mini-splits slowly are becoming DIY friendly, and it can be a job that can be done by a homeowner if they get the right kit and can follow directions.

We’ve already gone over why precharged lines are not recommended.
At a minimum, the OP would need a flair block, nitrogen, gauges, a vacuum pump, micron gauge, and if the lines went over ~15 feet long a scale and refrigerant.