I have a 10'x10' kitchen I want to remodel. The entry off the living room is through an opening in a load bearing wall. The far wall is an exterior wall. You would think that there would be joists spanning this 10' from load bearing wall to exterior wall, BUT, there is an "extra" beam 4' from, and parallel to, the entry wall. The joists from the living room extend over the entry wall beam to about a foot past this extra beam on the window side. the joists coming from the window wall are about 8' long and end about 2 feet past this extra beam on the entry side. I need to get rid of this extra beam for the kitchen renovation. My original plan was to try to sister the joists coming from the window wall with full length joists which would span to the entry wall beam. But I just wanted to ask...since I have about 2 feet of joist overlap, is there any splice plate product which I could simply anchor to and through this overlap, to get both joists to act as one? I am pretty sure the physics don't allow for that kind of thing, but I thought i would ask before I went the sister route. Any other suggestions are very welcome! Thanks.
Any way to splice joists together?
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pictures?
there are lots of ways to splice joists and i bet the physics of it would surprise you.
there are lots of ways to splice joists and i bet the physics of it would surprise you.
Here is a quick sketch of a reflected ceiling plan. You can see the overlap of the existing joists over the "extra" beam. I would ideally like to splice those ends together in place, so they act as a single span, and eliminate my need to sister them. The proposed sister joist is shown hatched. I should note that this beam is carrying virtually nothing above it. The house is a square box with simple shallow gable roof, this is an outside corner, and there is nothing exotic happening above it that would require a beam...only two layers of subfloor plywood. The house was not always a house, so there may have been a need for it in the past, but there certainly is not now. Plans call for the area above it to become a storage area. Sooo...any creative ideas for splicing these joists together? I appreciate any quick replies in that I will be addressing this issue this weekend. I will try to follow up with more pictures tonight. NOTE: I am going by memory here this morning, so the 18" overlap over the extra beam for one set of joists may be a little less. It is at least a foot though. Many thanks!
Attachments
showed this sketch to an architect friend of mine, and, though he wanted to see the actual condition, he was of the opinion that I could probably just do 2 rows of 4 carriage bolts, preferably with a 16 ga. mtl plate each side, and some big washers in the area of overlap and splice the joists together without the sister joist. That would be great! Anybody agree or disagree with him? Thanks in advance.
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It would probably be fine but just using 2x6 instead of eights sistered on with 16d nails staggered 8" O.C. would do the trick and be a lot faster I think.
That span of only 10' @12" O.C. would fine with 2X6s. Heck, 2X4 meet the criteria but I would go with 6s.
Andy.
That span of only 10' @12" O.C. would fine with 2X6s. Heck, 2X4 meet the criteria but I would go with 6s.
Andy.
Thanks. The trick is how do I get the sisters up into the space? With that beam there, I can't maneuver the 2x6's to where they need to go. I can't take the beam down and then sister the joist, right? I need to get it in place before taking the beam down. If I can just splice the existing joists together, that makes it easier, I think, though a bit more expensive.
The beam is below the joists, and I would like to keep the subfloor above the joists intact. I have complete access from below. The space above is wide open, but like I said, I would prefer to not take up the floor. This is why I latched onto the splicing idea.
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Is the wall that has the "opening for entry to kitchen" a bearing wall?
Something doesn't make sense here.
Something doesn't make sense here.
Yes. That wall with the entry opening in it runs the whole width of the house and, I believe, is a bearing wall. The header of that entry is two 2x12's sandwiched together, which is probably overkill, since the opening width is maybe 7-8' wide. The "extra" beam in my sketch spanned only the width of the kitchen area. There is no beam or bearing wall along its axis anywhere beyond the wall it runs into. I will be doing some more demo tonight, to verify my beliefs
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I think it is interesting that you are actually getting design suggestions with specific recommendations for sizing without any apparent knowledge of the loading on the beams and joists. You really should get this designed by a professional engineer or architect. Splicing joists is much more complicated than simply nailing them together, replacing the joists may be expensive and complex, and sistering on a joist requires careful detailing of the connections to the existing joists. You are also going to need a permit, which will probably require design plans, and if your town is like my town, the plans need to be stamped by a professional.
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Oh come on Daniel, I know you are an engineer but this is pretty straight forward stuff here, conventional construction all the way IF what he posted is correct.
He said 2X8 @12" O.C. with a span of 10' for storage up above? Pretty simple math, well looking it up in the IBC charts. .
Not everything has to be designed by an SE, PE or Architect.
Andy.
He said 2X8 @12" O.C. with a span of 10' for storage up above? Pretty simple math, well looking it up in the IBC charts. .
Not everything has to be designed by an SE, PE or Architect.
Andy.
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There is probably a good reason why it is configured like that in the first place. When asked if the wall was a bearing wall, the poster seemed very iffy. My two cents would be to verify that the wall is indeed bearing. The rest is pretty simple if it is.
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That’s exactly why I don’t post on anything here that could be considered structural.
There are many cases where “straight forward” and “common sense” do apply IMO but obviously aren’t allowed here.
Another reason I want to see pictures, all of them.
I spoke to the building inspector last week about the job. I explained the beam situation to him and said I would know more when I got the ceiling down. He was good with that. I also explained the scope of the renovation to him and he said he didn't need any drawings. I plan on talking to him tomorrow actually to pull the permit and get his take on the beam issue. I appreciate all the insights offered here though, as it gives me more information and perhaps alternative ideas for solutions. In the end though, the inspector has the last say on things.
best advice on this thread.... If you are asking for info off an internet forum on how to do this, then you really need to be asking an engineer, or in the very least consult with your local inspector.
I'm glad to hear you are getting permits for this. Good luck.
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