[a1481155]

In 2012 I bought the house that you all have been helping repair, which was built in 1970. Everything was original except the central HVAC, which according to the stickers on it was manufactured in 2010 and installed by XYZ Co. Where I bought the house, a permit is required to replace the existing HVAC system with a new HVAC system but I could not find a permit with the local municipality for the installation. The home inspector said it wasn't a big deal; I could not be held responsible nor get in any sort of trouble nor incur a fine, if it wasn't installed up to code before I bought the house. OK...Great! But how much responsibility does the installer "XYZ Co." have? There are two separate issues that keep occurring with one of my two air handlers; the following is one of them:

(09/23/2013)
The air handler fan stopped turning, the lines and floor around the air handler froze up and the a/c had to be turned off for days. I called XYZ, co. and they sent someone out. He examined the system, found and replaced a bad "Evaporator Motor Control Module", which he told me "this motor was known for blowing or going bad". REPAIR ESTIMATE TOTAL = $180 ..PAID IN FULL [Parts: Under warranty 10 years from original install date + Labor: 2 hours @ $90/hour (1 hour to diagnose, 1 hour to pick up part locally and install)].

(6/2/2015)
The air handler fan stopped turning, the lines and floor around the same air handler froze up, again. I called XYZ, co. and told them that it appeared that the "Evaporator Motor Control Module" went bad again. XYZ sent someone out, who examined the system, diagnosed nothing wrong, replaced nothing and by the time he left, the system was defrosted and working. SERVICE CALL CHARGE = Labor for 1 hour @ $90...PAID IN FULL! Within 2 hours, the same air handler fan stopped turning, the lines and floor around the air handler froze up, again. I called XYZ, co. back and scheduled someone to come out the next day.

(6/3/2015)
XYZ, co. sent someone out, who examined the system, and even though there was no loss of display or sign of a low battery in the thermostat, he said he "replaced battery and fixed loose wire at thermostat."…by the time he left, the system had thawed out and was working. SERVICE CALL CHARGE = labor 1 hour = $90, which I refused to pay.

(10/2015)
The air handler fan stopped turning, the lines and floor around the same air handler froze up, again. I called XYZ, co. and told them that it appeared that the "Evaporator Motor Control Module" went bad again. XYZ sent someone out, who examined the system, replaced nothing and agreed with me that the "Evaporator Motor Control Module" went bad again. By the time he left, the system had thawed out and was working. He left without presenting me a bill. The next day, I got a call from XYZ, co with the REPAIR ESTIMATE TOTAL = $300 (Parts: No longer under 10 year warranty, for some reason + Labor).

Hmm? That's $120 more than the fist time (09/2013), when he charged me $180 to diagnose, pick up and install the part. I called XYZ, co. with some questions, especially about the 10 year warranty on parts no longer being honored. The rep on the phone said she wasn't able to answer my questions and would leave a message for someone, who could to call me back…I neither got a call back nor any further correspondence.

Fast forward 6 months, to this past week...I get a bill in the mail from XYZ, co. in the amount of $90 for the date of service 11/13/15..."Found Bad Evaporator Motor Control Module"…"Over 90 Days Past Due". It appears that XYZ, co. is trying to set me up for collections and/or a Mechanics Lien, if possible. Isn't it bad enough, they got $90 out of me for finding NOTHING on 6/2/15, then tried to charge me another $90, the next day 6/3/15, for "replacing a battery in the thermostat" that showed no signs of needing to be replaced and "fixing a loose wire" that showed no signs of being loose, THEN no longer honoring the 10 year warranty on parts...Seriously?

F*ck that!

If I have any leverage or recourse with XYZ, co, especially for not pulling required permits on installation, I want to know!

Your thoughts??

 

[Yodaman]

Pay them the $90 and keep it out of collections, not worth the hassle and credit hit. Then if needed take them to small claims court. Report to BBB ?

 

[DOUG1111]

Most MFG warranty is for the original owner only! The "XYZ Co." did not do right from the get go. Permit. So the XYZ Co. cheated. What else did they cheat on?? What made you think you were doing the right thing by calling the original install Co?? But things could have been worse!! Check---

 

[supers05]

This isn't a legal site, so you won't get much help in that category. I don't respect the BBB, and all the companies that I've worked for (including retail and various service areas) have all just ignored them, but it doesn't hurt to complain anyways.

You could try calling xyz and threatening with a bbb complaint and small claims court, but most people here would just ignore you and go about their business. (especially with the way that they are operating) Small claims isn't free in most areas, so you might be losing anyways.

They sound like they're the type to send it to collections. Depending on your location. it may or may not matter to you or your credit score. (Here they have to have your signature before anything is official)

I'd say stop calling them out, post here and we'll help you repair it yourself. Or at least diagnose it, if it's more of a pro job.

Cheers!

 

[Technow]

There is a good chance the unit is NOT under a parts warranty anymore.

10 years is typically to the original owner who purchased the equipment (and in some cases registered the warranty) . some manufacturers allow the 10year to be transferred to a new owner...some don't. If its not transferred, then it reverts to standard 5 years.

 

[b-boy]

Pay them the $90 so they go away. Put in a BBB complaint if you feel they really owe you. It will at least force them to address the issue with an arbitrator. Plus, it will show up as a ding on their BBB report.

Find another company to handle the work going forward. Get references/referrals for the new guys before you use them.

 

[DOUG1111]

IMO - most HVAC tech's would change the complete EMC motor-when the motor is covered by warranty. Maybe IF complete motor was changed in 2013 - you may have not of had soooo many problems?? Did XYZ Co do you a dis-service by not changing the complete motor?? If the ECM motors fails & not in warranty MANY + HO have the motor replaced with a PSC motor (cost is less) -- On the payment I would call there bluff-- a lot of BS for both parties for $90.00 --- In 6/3/2015 did you sign a repair order???

 

[beenthere]

Call them and talk calmly to the service manager, or owner.

If you don't get any satisfaction. Pay them(to keep it off your credit report). Then call the BBB. BBB can't really do anything, except give them a lower score/rating. And they may or may not care about that.

 

[bfletcher7]

I'd say stop calling them out, post here and we'll help you repair it yourself. Or at least diagnose it, if it's more of a pro job.

This is TRUTH. I admire the help that you pros provide here. Everyone is extremely polite, respectful, and you strive to offer genuine help and feedback. You should be very proud of yourselves. Kudos!

 

[a1481155]

Thanks everyone!

This isn't a legal site, so you won't get much help in that category. I don't respect the BBB, and all the companies that I've worked for (including retail and various service areas) have all just ignored them, but it doesn't hurt to complain anyways.

You could try calling xyz and threatening with a bbb complaint and small claims court, but most people here would just ignore you and go about their business. (especially with the way that they are operating) Small claims isn't free in most areas, so you might be losing anyways.

They sound like they're the type to send it to collections. Depending on your location. it may or may not matter to you or your credit score. (Here they have to have your signature before anything is official).

I'd say stop calling them out, post here and we'll help you repair it yourself. Or at least diagnose it, if it's more of a pro job.

Cheers!

As far as signatures...

6/3/15
Yes, I signed BUT before the tech left, we both spoke with XYZ, co. office and got approval on no charge. At that point, I crossed out the $90 amount due on the invoice and both the tech and I initialed it.

10/2015
No, the tech left without presenting me a bill to sign. FWIW, to me, this visit was for a repair estimate not a service call.

IMO - most HVAC tech's would change the complete EMC motor-when the motor is covered by warranty. Maybe IF complete motor was changed in 2013 - you may have not of had soooo many problems?? Did XYZ Co do you a dis-service by not changing the complete motor?? If the ECM motors fails & not in warranty MANY + HO have the motor replaced with a PSC motor (cost is less) -- On the payment I would call there bluff-- a lot of BS for both parties for $90.00 --- In 6/3/2015 did you sign a repair order???

Dis-service, indeed! Especially, since they told me the motor sucks. Seems like they were just setting me up for a bunch of service calls. Then the hole warranty thing, first honoring the 10 year warranty but only replacing the part that the bad motor affected, instead of replacing the motor that sucks, while under warranty…Then no longer honoring the 10 year warranty.

It IS, "a lot of BS for both parties for $90.00" …I agree! But If I pay this $90, that'll be $180 for wasting my time and giving me an estimate. I have a feeling it's going to end up costing me a lot more than this $180 in time and money, moving forward.

Call them and talk calmly to the service manager, or owner.

If you don't get any satisfaction. Pay them(to keep it off your credit report). Then call the BBB. BBB can't really do anything, except give them a lower score/rating. And they may or may not care about that.

I've started drafting an email to XYZ, co. and since they're a licensed contractor with the state, I'm thinking I can nicely bring up the fact that I'm aware they cheated by not pulling the required permit(s); and the fact that they continue to behave in what I consider unethical, if not unlawful business practices...as well as "suggest" going to the state licensing division as well as the BBB, might be in order.

With all that said, I'm more concerned with whether or not XYZ, co. has the power to put a mechanics lien on my house than a credit hit of collections.

 

[A_DAB_will_do]

My $0.02.

send a certified letter to the company owner, by name if at all possible, and outline your concerns. Be polite. Ask for a response in writing with an explanation for what the solution to your specific problem is from their point of view, and why that solution wasn't implemented in the first service call?

You might just get satisfaction and a workable compromise as to the cost to fix the unit permanently. If you get no response or a non-written response, then pay the $90 and move on. Life is short and there's not enough time to waste on revenge.

 

[a1481155]

My $0.02.

send a certified letter to the company owner, by name if at all possible, and outline your concerns. Be polite. Ask for a response in writing with an explanation for what the solution to your specific problem is from their point of view, and why that solution wasn't implemented in the first service call?

You might just get satisfaction and a workable compromise as to the cost to fix the unit permanently. If you get no response or a non-written response, then pay the $90 and move on. Life is short and there's not enough time to waste on revenge.

Thanks!
I'm not seeking revenge. I'm more concerned with whether or not XYZ, co. has the power to put a mechanics lien on my house than a credit hit of collections. I simply want to know, how much responsibility XYZ, co. has here for not pulling the required permit(s). As a consumer, I can use that information to not be taken advantage of.

 

[DOUG1111]

Thanks!
I'm not seeking revenge. I'm more concerned with whether or not XYZ, co. has the power to put a mechanics lien on my house than a credit hit of collections. I simply want to know, how much responsibility XYZ, co. has here for not pulling the required permit(s). As a consumer, I can use that information to not be taken advantage of.

OP your case might be for (TV) Judge Judy?? County dog catcher has lien on my house. $200. + /// Many many years now. I don't care. But will need to be paid if & when I sell.

 

[supers05]

The lien part would be hard to help you with since most of us don't deal with the legal side of things and every jurisdiction will have different rules and methods.

I know that my company would rather sue then do anything else. Right in the paperwork, it says that the equipment is still owned by us until paid. So we've taken things back before and just gave up on the labor. It can be a headache, but luckily I'm not the poor soul dealing with it.

Here, without a signature, it can't affect credit scores, with a few exceptions. I've had third party bogus parking tickets go to collections before. It hasn't affected my credit score. But like I said, everywhere is different, often radically.

Cheers!

 

[supers05]

OP your case might be for (TV) Judge Judy??...

That's actually a good idea! Lol. Since you don't pay to go on that show, and everyone wins behind the scenes, the OP wouldn't have anything to lose except time and privacy.

Cheers!

 

[beenthere]

Thanks!
I'm not seeking revenge. I'm more concerned with whether or not XYZ, co. has the power to put a mechanics lien on my house than a credit hit of collections. I simply want to know, how much responsibility XYZ, co. has here for not pulling the required permit(s). As a consumer, I can use that information to not be taken advantage of.

Well, good chance that your inspector that told you not to worry about no permit for the HVAC install. Was probably wrong.

If renovations were made by a property owner in 1985 that required a permit and the property was later bought and sold several times, the Building Official has the authority to force the "Current Owner" to obtain the permit and satisfy all code requirements. All previous owners including the one(s) that made the renovations are off the hook and the current owner becomes responsible for compliance. If you just purchased the property then you are now the “Current Owner”.

http://www.real-estate-inspections.com/articles.php?NewsArticleID=7



None of the problems you have had. Would be effected 1 way or another if a permit was pulled.

But before you try and report that no permit was pulled. Best to find out who is now responsible. And its your AHJ that can tell you that. Or a real-estate lawyer.

 

[jimn]

Report no permit and the local authority may require you get one and bring everything up to current code. BTW at prevailing rates in my local these guys are pretty cheap. Also most HVAC warranty on parts are prorated . If it's replaced in 9 years the warranty only covers 10% of the cost of the new part. Make sure you read the warranty. Obviously XYZ can't fix the issue or doesn't want to deal with you anymore. I would pay the 90 bucks and move on and find a HVAC guy who can fix the system and drop the permit thing . What is done is done. Give the new guy a chance and maybe let him make the initi diagnosis .

 

[ZTMAN]

In our neck of the woods, property owners are responsible for pulling permits, not contractors. Some contractors will pull the permit as part of their quote, but they do that as a courtsey. The time to address the permit issue was when you bought the home. For $90 I would not push the issue and pay the man

 

[A_DAB_will_do]

Thanks!
I'm not seeking revenge. I'm more concerned with whether or not XYZ, co. has the power to put a mechanics lien on my house than a credit hit of collections. I simply want to know, how much responsibility XYZ, co. has here for not pulling the required permit(s). As a consumer, I can use that information to not be taken advantage of.

I had an experience with a motorcycle dealership and poor service from their maintenance department. I couldn't fix a problem with my bike, and paid them to troubleshoot and repair it. When I picked the bike up it ran worse than when I dropped it off. The service advisor ignored my complaints.

I wrote a long letter to the dealership owner; expecting no response. Instead I received a personal phone call a couple days later. They picked the bike up from my home, serviced it again, and returned it to my home for no charge.

My point is that sometimes owners don't always know what's going on. but most good business people know that customer satisfaction is important. If you bring a problem to the owners attention, in a polite manner, sometimes you'll get satisfaction in the end.

And then again, sometimes you'll get 'the bird'. Then it's cheaper in $$$ and agravation to buy them off and move on...

 

[sktn77a]

Sounds like "XYZ" company did an incompetent install and incompetent repairs. Get the job inspected and get any code violations fixed. If your house burned down and an insurance inspector found the cause to be non-code related electrical work, they could refuse to pay up.

And post the name of this company - they deserve it!