Anderson and Pella installers
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they are sub-contracted.
They sub contractors. What type of door are you looking at Gliding or Hinged? If it's a gliding patio door-please look at the way the door is put together. Please, look at these items:
The Pella sliding door -the gliding part of the door is on the outside- I hope you do not plan on opening the door in the winter for any reason- snow and ice can build up on the exposed sill rail not allowing the door to glide
Look at the sill it's not truely thermally broken-
Pella is currently in a CLass action Law Suit in your own state for windows rotting within 10 years- go to pellaclassactionlawsuit.com
THin Aluminum on the out side - not all door rails on bottom sides are painted or covered-leaving exposed wood
Screen is on the inside-if you live in a buggy area-bugs are attracted to light, they gather on the screen-then if you move your screen which has bugs on it-to lock your door-now bugs are in your house
The Andersen has a mortise and tendon -joints at all four corners of the door-for more stability
THe Andersen has Low-e4 which qualifies for the government rebates -"if" you do not make over $250k-The Pella does not-
The Andersen you can get parts and rollers for most things made since 1939
The sills are thermally broken
More hardware options
The Andersen door style and rails have LVL inside
If it's hinged Pella look at all the exposed weather stripping -it takes away the look of the door- step back take a look for your self-
The Andersen Door has no exposed weather stripping
The Andersen Door has adjustable hinges
1/4"steel that reaches out -almost impossible to break-better lock meck.
Get a qoute at your local Home Depot then take it too your local Lumber yard/you deals in Andersen- give them the HD quote to beat-
If your looking at Patio Doors Andersen is the best-then Marvin, then Koble/Kolbe
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I second Emily on the Anderson sliders. The vinyl clad wood Andersons are reasonably priced and pretty solid.
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7,556 Posts
They are all subcontracted.
How do I know this? I have met with both company's Representatives, and have been solicited to be an installing-company for them. Aditionally, I know other fellow GC's and Contractors - Who have are either on their installation list, or are installing their products.
Is this bad? Not neccesarily.
You see, when a large production manufacturer hires outside (licensed-if State required) Companies/Contractors to do their installations.....it saves ""you, the Home Owner, installation/overhead costs.
Thus, the prices you get for the purchase/install - of their windows and doors, are significantly less, than if these large companies had to hire their own full-time installation crews.
Don't get me wrong. The distributors are actually very particular about the companies and contractors that install their products. They do not want sub par work, nor do they want their products installed improperly. Both these aspects WILL cost them money and sales - if done improperly/wrong.
The companies I have delt with, while being smooshed to do their installs, are very professional, and have learned the additional costs, that come "if" they hire hacks.
I seriously considered their installation offers. The only reason why we don't work as installation contractors for them is...simply, we are way too busy, to have a dedicated crew of workers doing installation just for them.
Hope this "First hand" info helps.
How do I know this? I have met with both company's Representatives, and have been solicited to be an installing-company for them. Aditionally, I know other fellow GC's and Contractors - Who have are either on their installation list, or are installing their products.
Is this bad? Not neccesarily.
You see, when a large production manufacturer hires outside (licensed-if State required) Companies/Contractors to do their installations.....it saves ""you, the Home Owner, installation/overhead costs.
Thus, the prices you get for the purchase/install - of their windows and doors, are significantly less, than if these large companies had to hire their own full-time installation crews.
Don't get me wrong. The distributors are actually very particular about the companies and contractors that install their products. They do not want sub par work, nor do they want their products installed improperly. Both these aspects WILL cost them money and sales - if done improperly/wrong.
The companies I have delt with, while being smooshed to do their installs, are very professional, and have learned the additional costs, that come "if" they hire hacks.
I seriously considered their installation offers. The only reason why we don't work as installation contractors for them is...simply, we are way too busy, to have a dedicated crew of workers doing installation just for them.
Hope this "First hand" info helps.
Hmmmm...I had my Pella sliding door installed 8-10 years ago. I open it no less than 20 times a day to let the dog, cats and kids in or out all winter. I have to say that I am completely satisfied with it. Not once have I had a problem with ice building up on the sill rail. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you mean when you say the sill is not truely thermally broken, but there are no drafts coming in near the sill, or from anywhere around that door.
With the number of daycare and neighbor kids I've had in and out of my house since the door was installed, if the aluminum was too thin, I would have plenty of dents and dings in it. There are no dents or dings, but plenty of dirty little hand prints (not the fault of Pella). LOL
This was one of the reasons I considered NOT buying this Pella sliding door. I thought there would be bugs coming in the house. For some reason, it doesn't happen. I think it's because, when the screen door is open and there is a bug on the exterior side of it, the bug is trapped between the screen and the stationary side of the door. It can't fly into the house. Personally, I love the fact that the screen door is on the inside. The Anderson slider door that was here before had the screen on the outside and it was exposed to the weather all year and it didn't hold up well to the kids and dog. It didn't have a sturdy frame either. Plus, that screen door had small plastic wheels on the bottom of it to help it slide. Any dirt that got into the track made it hard to slide the screen. Also, it was fairly common for the screen door to come off the track, even the toddlers could push it out. The Pella door has a mechanism at the top of the screen door to make it slide, so dirt has no effect on it. All of that wouldn't stop me from buying an Anderson door in the future though, because by the time we replaced ours, it was probably 10 or more years old. I'm sure Anderson has much better doors now.
The only issue I have with the Pella slider is that the protective finish (polyurethane) has worn off of the oak threshold from so much use. I think that is to be expected and it's only a matter of cleaning, sanding and applying another protective seal on it. Simple.
If you do a search on this forum for either of the two brands of doors and windows, you'll probably find good and bad things being said about them both. I had three Champion windows installed last summer and I've been very happy with them and that company's customer service. There are several good window and door companies to choose from.
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That's the funny thing about window and door manufacturers. There are so many good and bad write-ups...even for Champion.
It' really sort of a crap shoot. A Lot of it revolves around the company hired to install that manufacturer's procduct. Either way, every manufacturer states that they stand behind their product.
Incidentilly = The complaints that the manufacturers have the most of, is NOT...whether their product was installed per warranty coverage. It's about the detailed carpentry on the interior side of the home. In the past, many of these companies just hired roofing & siding installers to do their work. They now realize that skilled carpentry is directly involved...with customer satisfaction.
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not that subconractors are bad, its that many times the sales man will not be truthful about that fact and if there not being upfront about whether or not the use subs what else are they hiding
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Ron, you hit the nail on the head. ALL her posts revolve around answers to Window discussions. No other topics.
Nothing in her public file tho.
Hmmmmm.....interesting. I wonder if there's a "common theme" to all the comments?
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Aha! (Window Salesperson)- http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/condensation-ring-window-36129/index2/#post215865
Ron,
Let me introduce myself: I sold windows since 1992-Wolohans 3yrs, Wickes & UBC aprox11 yrs, PRO Build 1yr, 84 Lumber 1 yr, Lowes for 6 months and now a local yard...I sold approx 35 to 50 million of dollars of windows over the years- Ron, the window with the best service is Andersen. I've sold them all except Eagle. I also, sold Pella except designer series, Preachtree, and Jeld Wen Wenco when it was wood-
I now sell Marvin, Andersen, Koble/Kolbe and Weather Shield- and lots and lots of vinyl companies. Ron, if you been were I've been, then you'd understand why I say Marvin and ANdersen are CLEARLY the best.
Look, if you took back defective windows and saved everything, Patio Door Panels, Frames and Parts- and then at the end of the month you did a Product training class for everyone at the Lumber Yard- taking apart all the defective items of the windows and doors, completely apart. You could maybe see what I've seen and know, the next time you have a defective window ask to keep it then later take it apart to see everything, for your self.
Then Ron, do your self a favor look at Pella Class Action Lawsuits-
THen go to Pella Complaints- doesn't look like good service to me-been there-you get tired of Pella telling you -pounding salt-and your customer then understands why you recommended Andersen in the first place
THen call your state's better business bureau and ask about all the Pella issues
Also, Pella has very little windows that qualify for the New 2010 tax deductables (no Pella Proline qualify)-tell your customer sorry you do not qualify for 30% tax savings upto $1500 then-Look at Andersen site and Marvin-more than half of A/W qualify and majority of Marvin Windows Qualify for the tax savings
Then look at all the stuff on the web about Pella- it's all there in BLACK in WHITE
THen Ron also, do your self a favor-sell what ever window you sell then buy a Andersen or Marvin window and bring out to the site and then take it apart and compare the two-and you'll see what the customer wants after they see up close next too each other-Mavin and Andersen wins hands down almost everytime- :thumbsup:
TOP TEN
EAGLE
MARVIN
ANDERSEN
KOLBE
WEATHERSHIELD
PREACHTREE
JELD WEN AND PELLA
CRESTLINE
ATRIUM
then Vinyl
I do not like any vinyl window but if I have too sell it I will-
Siminton
Allside
Silverline 9500/8500
Milgard
Great LAKES
Rodgers
Pella does not use the best materail to make their windows-
Pella Pro Line- southern pine-which is softer-dents and rotts faster
Pella-does not heat strength their glass-
Pella you can see distortion on a sunny day looking at the glass
Pella has non reinforced sill
Aluminum conducts heat and cold through your walls-sill goes all the way inside your house
Pella has wood exposed to the outside- rolled form aluminum corners have corners with exposed wood and moisture and water can get under the aluminum
ALso pella does not back glaze between the aluminum and their window glass- when the butyl breaks down the rain or water runs right into the wood behind the aluminum
Pella Thermstar uses double side tape to hold the glass in the vinyl sash. Not good, cualk or sealant is far better
Pella themstar also uses paper thin glazing bead stops on the outside -around the glass- can break if bumped and gets brittle
Pella THermstar also has weap holes in the sills of there windows-get place for bug nest- also if it get clogged ice can form-and slam the sash down -sill cold crack
Pella Thermstar also uses thinner vinyl then most other companies
Pella Thermstar also use non inforced lift rails
And could go on and on but everyone gets mad at me for my articles
Windows/Roofing/Siding- Windows are my speicality- what is there too roofing and siding- Roofing Owens Corning and ELK are the best- Siding depends on how thick the siding is and if it backed with polystyrene for extra added value- HMMMMMM get over your self -- Knowledge wins everytime- I know my windows-- what do you want in my public file- that I'm a part time dancer-ha ha - No that's not me- what is it you need to know---
Back to the top topic.....
Basically, it all comes down too installation-you can buy any window or door-but if it's not installed correctly- good luck- always ask for -pictures of past jobs or customer recommendations- usually word of mouth is best-
usually the contractors who have to advertise are not always that busy-I know a few contractors that have not ever advertised-and are always, always busy-best advertisement is word of mouth.
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7 Posts
Good and Bad on Pella
Hi!
We have 30 year-old pella windows throughout our home. They have wood casings with double paned glass. The exterior window is wood framed, and there is aluminum framing around the interior glass pane. The screens are also aluminum framed. On the positive side - they are 30 years old, still solid and seal well - literally no air leaks. Until very recently, I would never recommend anything else.
However, we had cracks in 2 panes of glass - the interior ones that are aluminum framed. When we took them to 2 different glass companies they couldn't replace the glass. We took them to the Pella dealer in our city (in business for at least 50 years). They couldn't replace the glass either. The reason - the glass is sealed into the aluminum frame with a very strong, very gunky sealant that cannot be removed. We had to order 2 new interior window frames with glass. The new ones have the same sealant, so if they break the glass cannot be replaced. They weren't terribly expensive, it just doesn't make sense that the sealant they use on the aluminum (and probably the vinyl) is so difficult to work with. We don't know about the sealant on the wooden exterior pane, my hubby forgot to ask - ugh!.
I think the customer service for the majority of home remodeling or building products depends on the franchise holder that sells the product, unless you are ordering factory-direct (risky to do for a DIYer - sometimes you need a good local dealer to communicate with the manufacturer). There is an Anderson Window dealer in our area that has a terrible reputation, but my brother loves his Anderson dealer in a city about 75 miles away. Many times it's not the manufacturer, it's the dealer.
Also, I agree with the person who said the Home Depot does carry higher-end products - you just have to order them. All home building/remodeling companies are reducing the number and varieties of products they are carrying in their on-site inventories. They carry what sells fast - everything else has to be ordered.
Now - I would like one person who criticizes the "big box" stores think about this ...... You have a regular family with 2.5 kids, a dog, maybe a cat. You have limited income. You need some window blinds for your family room - oops no - you don't have a family room - you need blinds for your living room. Do you go out and look for the most expensive, highest quality blinds? Probably not. You look for something that will last about 1 or 2 years and won't make you cry a river if your kids, dog, or cat trash them sooner. Home Depot and Lowes stock their shelves for you, not the childless couple or the empty-nester turned DIYer and not for the professional contractor, although many professional contractors buy the low-end stuff and charge you the high-end price. If you want higher quality order it from that big box store or pay the price at the little-box store that makes big mark-up serving the ones that are willing to pay.
Hi!
We have 30 year-old pella windows throughout our home. They have wood casings with double paned glass. The exterior window is wood framed, and there is aluminum framing around the interior glass pane. The screens are also aluminum framed. On the positive side - they are 30 years old, still solid and seal well - literally no air leaks. Until very recently, I would never recommend anything else.
However, we had cracks in 2 panes of glass - the interior ones that are aluminum framed. When we took them to 2 different glass companies they couldn't replace the glass. We took them to the Pella dealer in our city (in business for at least 50 years). They couldn't replace the glass either. The reason - the glass is sealed into the aluminum frame with a very strong, very gunky sealant that cannot be removed. We had to order 2 new interior window frames with glass. The new ones have the same sealant, so if they break the glass cannot be replaced. They weren't terribly expensive, it just doesn't make sense that the sealant they use on the aluminum (and probably the vinyl) is so difficult to work with. We don't know about the sealant on the wooden exterior pane, my hubby forgot to ask - ugh!.
I think the customer service for the majority of home remodeling or building products depends on the franchise holder that sells the product, unless you are ordering factory-direct (risky to do for a DIYer - sometimes you need a good local dealer to communicate with the manufacturer). There is an Anderson Window dealer in our area that has a terrible reputation, but my brother loves his Anderson dealer in a city about 75 miles away. Many times it's not the manufacturer, it's the dealer.
Also, I agree with the person who said the Home Depot does carry higher-end products - you just have to order them. All home building/remodeling companies are reducing the number and varieties of products they are carrying in their on-site inventories. They carry what sells fast - everything else has to be ordered.
Now - I would like one person who criticizes the "big box" stores think about this ...... You have a regular family with 2.5 kids, a dog, maybe a cat. You have limited income. You need some window blinds for your family room - oops no - you don't have a family room - you need blinds for your living room. Do you go out and look for the most expensive, highest quality blinds? Probably not. You look for something that will last about 1 or 2 years and won't make you cry a river if your kids, dog, or cat trash them sooner. Home Depot and Lowes stock their shelves for you, not the childless couple or the empty-nester turned DIYer and not for the professional contractor, although many professional contractors buy the low-end stuff and charge you the high-end price. If you want higher quality order it from that big box store or pay the price at the little-box store that makes big mark-up serving the ones that are willing to pay.
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7,556 Posts
Yes you do.
I'm not a contractor by any means, so I'll leave the installs to the pro's. I know how a windows is to be installed. I have never installed roofing, but sell it. I have helped install siding several time in my life. I know more about windows than most give me credit for, what everyone needs to do is really take apart windows to really see for them shelves how they are made.
My favorite is actually Marvin Windows right now today and my favorite Patio Door is Andersen they are the best , but Andersen is coming out with a NEW Window called the "A" Series and Patio Door line called the "A" Series. I haven't seen it personally but I hear it's similar to the Woodwrights but much better, it's a premium window line. I have seen the new brochure, and the window is out in Indiana, Maryland, and the North East and hear Andersen Windows can't keep up with production and had to limit who they sold it too because it sold so well. Lots of options on the New A Series. Marvin Infinity is a great window also, any one thinking of replacing should check it out.
As everyone can tell from pass posts, I'm not a huge fan of either Pella/Jeld Wen or Vinyl WIndows but I would still recommend Pella or Jeld Wen over vinyl any day, wood is natures best insulator. I realize times are tough, but too cheapen up on windows, is like having money to burn and is down right foolish with holes in your pockets. How often are windows replaced in a home, you hope just once, but you get what you pay for. How often do these fly by night contractors go up to a house and ruin it's looks and appearence with vinyl windows and storms over vinyl windows, yuck. If a wood window last 25 to 40 years and they are going to replacing it, why would someone think that vinyl is the way to go... How often do see vinyl windows already being repalced back with wood windows, I see it more than people think. And how many vinyl companies have went out of business, or started making a different window line and parts aren't available, everyday I see it more and more.
Sorry, to disappoint everyone, but I not a rep, but I've seen more than you think, and sold more than most, and I could take most of you to school and education of the windows is a must if your going to speak on them. Maybe I should apply to be a rep, tell me who's hiring? and who's pays the most? LOL, Please let me know, I'm willing to relocate for the right salary. LOL... Please, no vinyl leads either... I want to be able to sleep at night....
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