[shamban]

Hello, First post here.

We have decided to sell our home, one we had custom build about 10 years ago. After we moved in, I built a simple, average size deck, and partially finished part of the basement, all without getting any permits (dumb I know). Now that we are planning on moving, I am wondering if this might become a problem. I am confident it is was all done to code and would pass inspections. I just don't know how inspections of homes being sold work, and if inspectors would- or are required- to verify whether permits were obtained for things. Maybe they just check to see it is to code and that's it? I would much rather deal with a possible problem now than when we have a buyer.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Bud9051]

Unfortunately, most inspections are very superficial, which may be good for you. Only if you get a smart buyer will they hire a good inspector and for the most part they would not go looking for prior permits.

But, if you ask your town building people, I'm sure they will want to do an inspection and may even want some money or worse. In most cases you can't do an inspection on a final project. There have been cases where the unpermitted work had to be removed. Much depends upon your local process, some are strict, others might not care.

Bud

 

[lenaitch]

Up here, home inspectors are unregulated (although I hear the gov't is thinking of changing that) and there is a vast range of competence. Good or bad, they report to the party that hired them and their report expresses opinions. They will not do any kind of municipal or title search - that is up to the buyer's lawyer, and the municipality will only report on open workorders or permits - I have never seen a municipality report on historic permits attached to a property.

If you are confident they were built to code at the time you are probably ok unless there is some land use bylaw violation . I can't imagine a municipality issuing a 'post facto' permit because that pretty much defeats the purpose - they are issued to 'permit' a home owner to do something, and then closed off when the work is done to the agreed upon standards. I could maybe conceived a permit being issued then closed for the deck because the structure is visible, but they would likely want an engineer's report. There is no way you get a permit for a finished basement because it's closed in.

 

[Msradell]

Another point would be that the home inspector isn't going to know what the original construction of the home entailed so he will very likely not even question anything that was done without a permit. Local building officials are not going to do an inspection unless there's a permit pulled for something else to be added. The odds are heavily in your favor that the work you did is never going to be questioned.

 

[TheEplumber]

Another point would be that the home inspector isn't going to know what the original construction of the home entailed so he will very likely not even question anything that was done without a permit. Local building officials are not going to do an inspection unless there's a permit pulled for something else to be added. The odds are heavily in your favor that the work you did is never going to be questioned.

True, but the seller will probably have to sign a disclosure form stating improvements done- not sure as I haven't sold a house in eons.....

 

[shamban]

very much appreciate the responses. This seems like a great site that I look forward to participating in. Thanks again for all the help, looks like I will double check the work to make sure it is to code and move forward

 

[Oso954]

Another point would be that the home inspector isn't going to know what the original construction of the home entailed so he will very likely not even question anything that was done without a permit.

That holds true in areas where homes are built one at a time from a great variety of plans.

In other areas, homes are built in subdivisions with a limited number of floor plans. In those areas, a good inspector with experiance in that subdivision, often knows exactly what the original construction was, what upgrades were offered, and recognizes any alterations.

Some real estate agents can too.

 

[craig11152]

What ever you do, don't go to your local authority and try to get a permit after the fact. That will go badly for you I promise. :vs_no_no_no:

 

[kwikfishron]

What ever you do, don't go to your local authority and try to get a permit after the fact. That will go badly for you I promise. :vs_no_no_no:

So are you saying that OP should just lie on the sellers disclosure form? There's only two ways to handle this, make it right or lie.

 

[craig11152]

So are you saying that OP should just lie on the sellers disclosure form? There's only two ways to handle this, make it right or lie.

No your wrong. There is a third way. Its so obvious I'm a bit shocked you suggest otherwise.
A disclosure form isn't a "fix it" form. If I disclose the washer is broken or the roof leaks doesn't mean I have to fix it. I can look for an as is buyer and reduce my price if needed.
Around here if he tries to get an after the fact permit the city will just make him tear it down or undo it.

 

[kwikfishron]

So which box would you check? I've never seen a RE disclosure that didn't ask the question on unpermitted work.

 

[carpdad]

I'm in NJ. The town wanted a certificate of occupancy, and new people can't move in without it, and it is seller's responsibility to get it. You must arrange an inspection. What the town will say about your work is up to it. They may not say anything about the electrical and plumbing (most costly to touch) as long as there is no apparent violations. Deck could be a problem. Fire usually means missing extinguisher.

 

[Msradell]

That holds true in areas where homes are built one at a time from a great variety of plans.
In other areas, homes are built in subdivisions with a limited number of floor plans. In those areas, a good inspector with experiance in that subdivision, often knows exactly what the original construction was, what upgrades were offered, and recognizes any alterations.
Some real estate agents can too.

Considering the OP said that this was a custom-built home this doesn't apply.

I'm in NJ. The town wanted a certificate of occupancy, and new people can't move in without it, and it is seller's responsibility to get it. You must arrange an inspection.

That's the first I've ever heard of a place that requires a new CoO to be obtained when the home is sold. I wonder what there thinking is for this?

 

[lenaitch]

In our jurisdiction Property Disclosure Forms are not mandatory and there have been numerous cases of buyers taking sellers to court for allegedly non-disclosed deficiencies. Even though they are supposed to be a "are you aware of" report, the seller can be dragged into court based on the information they provided. I've always refused to complete one and most real estate lawyers will advise against them.

 

[rustyjames]

I'm in NJ. The town wanted a certificate of occupancy, and new people can't move in without it, and it is seller's responsibility to get it. You must arrange an inspection...

However, this is not true of an "as is" sale, then all the responsibility is on the buyer.

 

[MrElectricianTV]

Hello, First post here.

We have decided to sell our home, one we had custom build about 10 years ago. After we moved in, I built a simple, average size deck, and partially finished part of the basement, all without getting any permits (dumb I know). Now that we are planning on moving, I am wondering if this might become a problem. I am confident it is was all done to code and would pass inspections. I just don't know how inspections of homes being sold work, and if inspectors would- or are required- to verify whether permits were obtained for things. Maybe they just check to see it is to code and that's it? I would much rather deal with a possible problem now than when we have a buyer.

Thanks in advance for your help.

I work with a few real estate agents who throw me work that comes up from a real estate sale. Sometimes the buyer's attorney wants to see permits, particularly for finished basements. I suggest that you consult your real estate agent about these issues. She/he will have an idea what you should do. I had a worst case scenario job last year on a finished basement with no permits. They added a bedroom (No egress window) and a bathroom several years ago. The work was done by their sons and their sons friends. Someone from the town hall called up the real estate agent and asked about the finished basement advertised with the house ad. The town had no record of a finished basement for that house. The real estate agent and the homeowners went to the building department to apply for permits. They were told that no permits would be issued until they received a letter from an electrical contractor. I was hired to look at the wiring. Every outlet, switch, and light fixture had a problem. In addition there were 240 volt baseboard heaters connected to 120 volts. $7000.00 later and a ten page letter sent to the town, the homeowners were able to get their permits and have the other trades come in (Plumbing, HVAC) and make corrections.

I had another basement a few weeks ago. Only one room, but again every outlet, switch, and light had a problem. I was able to correct everything in a day.

In New Jersey, every residential real estate sale is required to have a smoke alarm and fire extinguisher inspection prior to the closing. This is done by the fire inspector. While there the inspector will look around for other things that may be a safety concern such as extension cords and open junction boxes. I have had to make corrections as a result of something the fire inspector found.

 

[joecaption]

And O/P's wonder why we always ask are you getting a permit?

 

[Aggie67]

What ever you do, don't go to your local authority and try to get a permit after the fact. That will go badly for you I promise. :vs_no_no_no:

This is the worst advice I've ever read on this site.

 

[Aggie67]

I'm one of those engineer/home inspectors that files a FOIA request for every single home I inspect for a client, requesting copies of permits. If I see a finished basement, deck, addition, new panel, bonus room over a garage, I will actually drive to town hall and open the file myself. Buyers can save a tremendous amount of money off of the sale price of a property if an improvement has not been permitted. I saved probably $40k on the sale price of the house I live in by doing my homework on a bump out addition. I had to open up walls, expose the wiring and framing components, plumbing and fasteners, expose the foundation. I did all that work myself, but I still saved a good chunk of change off the sale price. My advice to everyone is that you get permits. And if you don't, you should pray that the buyer doesn't hire me.

 

[ZTMAN]

So which box would you check? I've never seen a RE disclosure that didn't ask the question on unpermitted work.

The one that pertains to violation of local laws/regulations