[federer]

The project pushes on!

so we are going to try to save some money by putting in some outlets ourselves.

2 main questions:
-the idea is to add the new outlet from an existing one. for example in bedroom there is outlet on one wall, we want to add new outlet on the next wall. we can just fish the wire from the existing to the new one right?
here is what i picture:

is this right?

2. whats an easy way to figure out where the wires go? we have a bunch of wires that seem to run into nowhere, and we cant quite figure out how they all connect back to the panel

 

[fltdek]

The easiest way is going to be the most expensive, Fluke has thermal imagers that you can use to literally view wires thru the wall by means of heat difference. For those of us who cant afford one, it basically means trial and error! Isolating wires in a box, say for example, multiple wires coming into a light switch box. For me, I always pull the switch, and take a couple of snap shots, to remember where and how the wires were. With the breaker turned off, separate all the wires. Turn the breaker back on and determine which is your hot wire feeding that box. While the breaker is now on, and no wires are connected, determine what outlets, light fixtures, outside lights, doorbell, attic light ect are not working. One by one, connect wires back to your hot wire, dont forget the neutral, and see what you have power to, that you didnt before you hooked up that wire. Test each one this way until you figure it all out. You can try to make rational sense of how a circuit is wired, but its hardly ever worked for me....unless i wired it from the start. Literally had to remove insulation from the attic to trace wires, its not fun, and can be very time consuming!

 

[fltdek]

-the idea is to add the new outlet from an existing one. for example in bedroom there is outlet on one wall, we want to add new outlet on the next wall. we can just fish the wire from the existing to the new one right?
here is what i picture:

is this right?

This is a very good illustration. Dont be suprised that when you open that receptacle you intend for feeding the new outlets, that there is more than one wire, ideally finding the last outlet on the circuit would/may make things easier for you, because...i would avoid, and I know alot of members would agree, I would at all cost avoid pushing the stripped wire into the back of a receptacle or light switch. Much better securing the wires with the screw terminal on the side of the outlet.

 

[federer]

thanks so much! yea i would like to use the last outlet on the circuit so its easier to know what goes with what

 

[federer]

another question i forgot-whats an easy way to fish the wire from one outlet to the next?

 

[hammerlane]

another question i forgot-whats an easy way to fish the wire from one outlet to the next?

Thru holes in the wall studs if running new cable laterally.

Thru hole in top plate if running new cable up into attic, across attic then down thru another hole in top plate to new location.

 

[mikegp]

If you have a baseboard you can remove it and make all your holes down there so they will be hidden when you put it back on.

 

[fltdek]

Thru holes in the wall studs if running new cable laterally.

Thru hole in top plate if running new cable up into attic, across attic then down thru another hole in top plate to new location.

Please provide us with a description of what your working with. Is this on the first floor? If so do you have a crawl space, or access underneath the floor? Is this on a second level floor, and is there attic above?

Honestly, this is what I have found easiest, once you determine which outlet is the last on the circuit, be sure to turn off the breaker feeding that circuit. Remove the outlet and disconnect all wires. The next step may or may not go as easily as most would hope, but, in my opinion is a time saver. Carefully figure out the best way to extract the electrical box in the wall, without damaging the surrounding drywall. I dont know what type of electrical box you have in the wall, but if its the blue, black or white Carlon type, putting a screw driver between the box and the wall stud and prying it away from the stud, carefully working it loose. If its the heavier (i want to call it fiberglass type) - a hammer and screw driver to break it apart. If its metal...be creative. Once that is done, determine from either in the attic or under the floor (in the crawl space) where the wall cavity (space between the studs) where the box you removed is located. Drill a large enough hole up through, or down through depending where you are. The same goes for where you want to put your next outlet. Cut your openning for the new "old workbox" which I am assuming your going to use. Drill a hole in the top plate or bottom plate (again depending on where you have to feed it from.) Going back to the electrical box you removed, with it removed, you now have an openning to reach your hand inside the wall space to be able to grab the wire after its fished into the wall. Without the removal of the box, it will be more than likely very difficult to get your wire in that little hole in the box. Providing the hole cutout for the box you removed is not too large, you can now use and old workbox with tabs, start to feed all the wires in the box prior to putting the box in the wall, once you get the wires in far enough, insert the box in the wall, tighten, and pull the wires thru the rest of the way, wire up your outlet! The method can be used for any further outlets on down the line you want to add.

 

[federer]

Please provide us with a description of what your working with. Is this on the first floor? If so do you have a crawl space, or access underneath the floor? Is this on a second level floor, and is there attic above?

Honestly, this is what I have found easiest, once you determine which outlet is the last on the circuit, be sure to turn off the breaker feeding that circuit. Remove the outlet and disconnect all wires. The next step may or may not go as easily as most would hope, but, in my opinion is a time saver. Carefully figure out the best way to extract the electrical box in the wall, without damaging the surrounding drywall. I dont know what type of electrical box you have in the wall, but if its the blue, black or white Carlon type, putting a screw driver between the box and the wall stud and prying it away from the stud, carefully working it loose. If its the heavier (i want to call it fiberglass type) - a hammer and screw driver to break it apart. If its metal...be creative. Once that is done, determine from either in the attic or under the floor (in the crawl space) where the wall cavity (space between the studs) where the box you removed is located. Drill a large enough hole up through, or down through depending where you are. The same goes for where you want to put your next outlet. Cut your openning for the new "old workbox" which I am assuming your going to use. Drill a hole in the top plate or bottom plate (again depending on where you have to feed it from.) Going back to the electrical box you removed, with it removed, you now have an openning to reach your hand inside the wall space to be able to grab the wire after its fished into the wall. Without the removal of the box, it will be more than likely very difficult to get your wire in that little hole in the box. Providing the hole cutout for the box you removed is not too large, you can now use and old workbox with tabs, start to feed all the wires in the box prior to putting the box in the wall, once you get the wires in far enough, insert the box in the wall, tighten, and pull the wires thru the rest of the way, wire up your outlet! The method can be used for any further outlets on down the line you want to add.

thanks so much for the detailed reply. sorry i stepped out all day away from the computer.

sorry i did not clarify before. the outlets we are trying to do are actually on the same level. 3rd floor from the basement. the existing outlet is on one wall, we just want to add a new outlet on the adjacent wall.

and the same on the 1 st floor above basement. one existing outlet on a wall, want a new one further down on next wall.

it sounds easy but i havent done this before so haha

 

[fltdek]

thanks so much for the detailed reply. sorry i stepped out all day away from the computer.

sorry i did not clarify before. the outlets we are trying to do are actually on the same level. 3rd floor from the basement. the existing outlet is on one wall, we just want to add a new outlet on the adjacent wall.

and the same on the 1 st floor above basement. one existing outlet on a wall, want a new one further down on next wall.

it sounds easy but i havent done this before so haha

I personally always like to encourage the DIY'r, right up to the point that its beyond their capability, and/or comfort level. Not everyone has the opportunity to work along side another to learn the trade. So two things are accomplished, a learning lesson, and in most cases save you some money. (the learning lesson obviously the more important of the two). Everyday I read alot of responses from those on this site and others like it, who offer expertise advise and their knowledge in attempt to provide an efficient and more importantly - safe solution to the DIY'ers problem.
Therefore my graditude to those and for this site for their involvement and contributions!! Thanks!

As for you, the DIY, carry on with confidence, and if you get stuck, we are here to help you!! Good luck!

Mark

 

[federer]

I personally always like to encourage the DIY'r, right up to the point that its beyond their capability, and/or comfort level. Not everyone has the opportunity to work along side another to learn the trade. So two things are accomplished, a learning lesson, and in most cases save you some money. (the learning lesson obviously the more important of the two). Everyday I read alot of responses from those on this site and others like it, who offer expertise advise and their knowledge in attempt to provide an efficient and more importantly - safe solution to the DIY'ers problem.
Therefore my graditude to those and for this site for their involvement and contributions!! Thanks!

As for you, the DIY, carry on with confidence, and if you get stuck, we are here to help you!! Good luck!

Mark

thank you so much for the kind words mark! i will keep you posted! you have been so helpful:thumbup:

 

[federer]

so here is what i am talking about. this shows the outlet i would like to source power from.

 

[federer]

this is the wall right next to it where we want to add new outlet. its only about a 10ft run?

 

[Jim Port]

Unless the old wiring is grounded it should not be extended.

 

[federer]

Unless the old wiring is grounded it should not be extended.

hey! yea we want to replace the existing one with ground receptacle before extending it. right now its really old

 

[Jim Port]

You need a grounding means in the wiring method. Switching to a 3 prong receptacle will not provide a ground.

What wiring method does your house have?

 

[jeffnc]

You need a grounding means in the wiring method. Switching to a 3 prong receptacle will not provide a ground.

What wiring method does your house have?

(He already said his wiring is 2-wire, no ground. Why does he "need" a grounding means? These things are grandfathered in....)


Never mind! Sorry, got this confused with another thread.....

 

[federer]

yea we would like to make it a 3prong receptacle

 

[federer]

so back to original issue: i just went all over the house switching breakers off and trying to trace where circuits go. so in the back of the house above the ceiling there is a circuit running horizontal and then down into the wall it looks like. my guess is this line feeds the recptacles in the other room. here is a pic:

so you see the line disappear down into the stud. my guess is it runs to the first outlet in the adjacent room, and so forth. now there is 4 outlets in that room. so by my guess i traced it to the last outlet in the room, and open it up. this is what i find:

so am i right to think this is the last outlet on the circuit? if so, i would like to use this one as my source for my new lights. i am only adding 2 lights to the ceiling. is this ok?

 

[federer]

to make it more confusing, there is this one running down into teh stud as well on the same back of the wall as the white line in the picture above. in this pic it's a black line, so does this mean this is the true hot, and the other line going horizontal is just neutral???? i am really lost!