[giansean]

Hi All,

So as part of my garage improvement project I am working on adding some light switches and receptacles. Right now as far as receptacles I have the following:

1 20a non-GFI circuit for the GDO receptacles (both are about 10 feet off the ground)
1 20a GFI circuit for the rest of the wall receptacles

I am going to add an additional GFI circuit to take care of the "naked" back wall of the garage. That leaves one right in front between the doors. It is literally a six-ish foot straight down shot from the 2nd GDO receptacle. When it was wired in 2015 it passed inspection so for whatever reason those did not need to be GFI'd (maybe accessibility or maybe grandfathered... I did not research much). If I just slap in a GFCI receptacle in the box, can I just extend and be done? I know it will only protect itself, but that may be all it needs.

The other choices would be add a GFI breaker ($$$), put the GFI receptacle on the first GDO box in the circuit (maybe code fail due to accessibility) or run like 30' of extra wire just to add outlets.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[rjniles]

All the receptacle including the GDOs must be GFCI. The GFCI can not be at the GDO receptacles.
Find the first receptacle fed from the breaker, place the GFCI there and wire the rest of the string to the load terminals. If a GDO receptacle is the first, bite the bullet and buy a GFCI breaker or prepare to do some recalling and drywall repair.

Sent from my RCT6A03W13E using Tapatalk

 

[Greenlight1]

Hi All,

So as part of my garage improvement project I am working on adding some light switches and receptacles. Right now as far as receptacles I have the following:

1 20a non-GFI circuit for the GDO receptacles (both are about 10 feet off the ground)
1 20a GFI circuit for the rest of the wall receptacles

I am going to add an additional GFI circuit to take care of the "naked" back wall of the garage. That leaves one right in front between the doors. It is literally a six-ish foot straight down shot from the 2nd GDO receptacle. When it was wired in 2015 it passed inspection so for whatever reason those did not need to be GFI'd (maybe accessibility or maybe grandfathered... I did not research much). If I just slap in a GFCI receptacle in the box, can I just extend and be done? I know it will only protect itself, but that may be all it needs.

The other choices would be add a GFI breaker ($$$), put the GFI receptacle on the first GDO box in the circuit (maybe code fail due to accessibility) or run like 30' of extra wire just to add outlets.

Thanks for any advice!

NEC states every Receptacle in garage must be GFCI protected. We have had tons of trouble with GDO tripping GFI’s since they implemented this. If your GDO is on a separate circuit and your AHJ is cool with them being non-GFCI I will leave them be and just worry about recepts that are “readily accessible” to have GFCI protection.

 

[giansean]

Just did some looking up. These were done in early 2015 and we CT were still on the 2011 NEC (perhaps technically the 2005, but only until 2013...whaaaa?)

Anyway from what I can tell 2011 required GFI protection unless there was some sort of exception for a dedicated GDO circuit that ONLY fed non-accessible receptacles - I haven't got that far yet - net net they did it wrong.

Anyway easy fix as I forgot I installed one more box on a side wall that is in line w/ the run for the GDO. I can cut back down to that box then run back to a j-box, put a GFI in there and a regular receptacle in between the doors. Not too bad an ending after all... assuming they don't trip a lot.

 

[rjniles]

CT has been on NEC 2017 since 10/1/18. The exemption for non GFCI single receptacles is no longer allowed

Sent from my RCT6A03W13E using Tapatalk

 

[giansean]

Yep I get that. Curious about that exemption however. Was it stated somewhere in 2011 that it was acceptable to do what my electrician did? (At time of install)

 

[seharper]

NEC states every Receptacle in garage must be GFCI protected. We have had tons of trouble with GDO tripping GFI’s since they implemented this. If your GDO is on a separate circuit and your AHJ is cool with them being non-GFCI I will leave them be and just worry about recepts that are “readily accessible” to have GFCI protection.

Even ceiling receptacles that can only power lighting? Coz, I'll put ceiling lighting receps on GFCI when they pry them out of my cold dead -- wait, that's coming out all wrong

I can maybe imagine GDOs (even though, like fridges, they trip a lot and GFCI doesn't really benefit them)... but hey. Hardwired loads do not need GFCIs (unless NEC 2020 requires that?) So-- blank steel cover plate -> punch knockout holes -> proper strain relief -> snip -> hardwired GDO.

 

[giansean]

Even ceiling receptacles that can only power lighting? Coz, I'll put ceiling lighting receps on GFCI when they pry them out of my cold dead -- wait, that's coming out all wrong

I can maybe imagine GDOs (even though, like fridges, they trip a lot and GFCI doesn't really benefit them)... but hey. Hardwired loads do not need GFCIs (unless NEC 2020 requires that?) So-- blank steel cover plate -> punch knockout holes -> proper strain relief -> snip -> hardwired GDO.

Yeah that's exactly what I did when I did the loft lighting in the same garage. Snippedy snip and Bob's your uncle... not to mention a million times easier.

So as far as the GDO's tripping GFCI's... how big of a problem is it with the newer receptacles? I have two side mounted jackshaft openers, circa 2014 vs an overhead chain. Are these any better or worse?

 

[Jim Port]

The gfi is not to protect the refrigerator or the gdo. It is to protect the human life that can't be replaced. If the refrigerator is tripping the gfi fix it or get a new one.

 

[rjniles]

Even ceiling receptacles that can only power lighting? Coz, I'll put ceiling lighting receps on GFCI when they pry them out of my cold dead -- wait, that's coming out all wrong



I can maybe imagine GDOs (even though, like fridges, they trip a lot and GFCI doesn't really benefit them)... but hey. Hardwired loads do not need GFCIs (unless NEC 2020 requires that?) So-- blank steel cover plate -> punch knockout holes -> proper strain relief -> snip -> hardwired GDO.

Encouraging people with non code compliant solutions is not the object of this forum.

Sent from my RCT6A03W13E using Tapatalk

 

[giansean]

Encouraging people with non code compliant solutions is not the object of this forum.

Sent from my RCT6A03W13E using Tapatalk

I assume it does wonders for your warranty, but does it violate actual NEC to cut a plug and hardwire? Not being provocative, but genuinely curious as it's very common.

 

[rjniles]

Yes it is a code violation. The NEC required all electrical devices be approved and listed by a recognized testing agency. (UL, ETL, CE and others). Cutting off the plug violates the listing.

Admittedly it is a technical issue and is commonly done.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[Oso954]

Cutting off the plug violates the listing.

Terminating the power cord (plug cut off)in the junction box is a violation of 400.8, using a flexible cord as a replacement for permanent wiring. you would need to replace the cord with an approved method.

It also also eliminates the plug/receptacle as a safety disconnect point for servicing.

 

[giansean]

Gotcha. I will just re-do the GDO's the right way and hope for the best. As for upstairs lighting, I can just swap the current lights out with cans later. For now they work great

 

[seharper]

Encouraging people with non code compliant solutions is not the object of this forum.

Well, get used to it. First, I know Code pretty well, and often what I recommend IS code compliant even though common knowledge thinks it isn't. Second, there are certain very rare instances where I believe circumventing Code is warranted; and I'll explain. Fridges on GFCIs being at the top of the list.

The places I violate Code are the kind of places where you can go to the AHJ and say "please let me violate Code here for this reason" and the AHJ will say "alright" most of the time. The "Fridge Only" or "Sump Pump Only" non-GFCI recep being one of them.

Terminating the power cord (plug cut off)in the junction box is a violation of 400.8, using a flexible cord as a replacement for permanent wiring. you would need to replace the cord with an approved method.

You shouldn't be reading 400.8 without also reading 400.7.

Also, you're on the "GFCI + recep + plug-in" track. I think industrial. I'm on the "EMT conduit and hardwire" track. As soon as you start thinking that way, it becomes obvious that the vibration and movement of a GDO (especially one hanging down on falsework to line it up with the door) will have way too much vibration for EMT to be reliable. Boom! Flexible cord, 400.7(A)(7) thankye!

As for luminaires, the other topic here, boom! 400.7(A)(2). Mind you, the cords must be visible - you can't use SJOOW or whatever cord behind a drop ceiling.

The gfi is not to protect the refrigerator or the gdo. It is to protect the human life that can't be replaced. If the refrigerator is tripping the gfi fix it or get a new one.

No, you're overlooking an important factor: A fridge is itself a safety device. It MUST be kept running to preserve food. Putting a fridge on a GFCI is just as wrong as putting a fire pump/alarm/radon system on a GFCI.

"Oh, but the person will notice the fridge GFCI tripped" - don't count on it. They may not know the GFCI they reset was also powering the fridge.

"Oh, but the food preparer will observe/taste the food" - and that might work for our most robust citizens, but our most vulnerable citizens often have food prepared *for* them by others who do not taste-test it. I myself watched a paid "professional" aide pour a bowl of cereal using milk that had expired 2 months ago, and then declare the patient "fussy" for not eating it, and then, spoon feed it to the patient. "the cook will check it", my derriere.

And let's revisit:

You have a huge 200 pound box. It is grounded. 90% of kitchen installations, the fridge lives in an alcove. All the electrical gear is in the bottom back -- absolutely, completely inaccessible without pulling the fridge out of the alcove. And you're not too likely to drop it in the sink.

Spamming safety systems mindlessly is how Goober burns down a $100 million warehouse. Goober noticed that the CAT diesel fire pump did not have any low-oil trip. It did not have any low-water trip. It did not have any of the normal safety systems that protect large diesel engines from utterly pointless, easily avoided damage. Goober was Mister Safety who made sure Safety is Job One, so Goober retrofitted all that stuff. You can figure out where that went.

 

[Oldmaster]

There is nothing in the NEC that says the refrigerator has to be on a GFI.

 

[Jim Port]

There is nothing in the NEC that says the refrigerator has to be on a GFI.

As long as it is not in a commercial environment. If commercial it does.