[ssfarm]

Hi All:

I have a question if anyone can help me. One of my barns has no power. And I seem to have to go there more often these days at night and day. This barn has no power but I do keep a Bobcat 250 generator in there for my welding projects. I want to go ahead and install a breaker box and install a few receptacles and lights on three way and four way switches.

The barn is too far from my others which have electricity so this will not be a sub panel install. I thought of putting a 50 amp breaker box in and putting a couple of 20 amp circuits inside. My question is about the bonding neutral and ground inside the box. Now if I was installing a subpanel I would not bond them but since this is going to only get the electrical feed from a generator I would like to know the proper grounding and if I should bond the neutral and ground inside the box.

What I was thinking of doing was just leave the neutral and ground bonded together in the breaker box just as I would my house and also run a ground rod just outside the building and also use a grounding conductor to the rod from inside the breaker panel. This will be a 220 V input from the generator. Am I thinking right or should I do something else to remain safe?

 

[oh'mike]

I moved this to 'electrical' for you----someone will know the answer--Mike---

 

[Arrow3030]

It sounds like you might be deceived by what a ground rod does. It does not clear faults! Your generator most likely has a label that says the "neutral is bonded to the chasis" or something like that. You'll still want a ground rod.

 

[ssfarm]

Thank you Arrow. So is it a good idea with just the ground rod attached to the breaker box and bonding the neutral and ground bars inside the breaker box? For some reason I am questioning myself on this project and I don't know why.

 

[Arrow3030]

Ground rod to the panel for sure. I'm questioning bonding the neutral in the panel myself.
If your generator is bonded, which is likely, I'd say don't bond the panel.
If your generator isn't bonded, I'd definitely bond the panel.
You should wait for someone with more code knowledge on generators though.
Sorry I'm a bit iffy on this.

 

[ssfarm]

Thank you Arrow for your help. Makes sense what you have stated. Maybe someone will come along and help give some additional info.

 

[ssfarm]

Okay here is what I found additional from the owners manual:

Generator power receptacles neutral bonded to frame.

Ground generator to system earth ground if supplying power to premises (home, farm) wiring system.

So then if I wire the breaker box as I would a home except I would not bond the neutral and ground bus bars together. I would take like a 14r-50 plug and mount it somewhere inside or outside the building and connect the two line power conductors where they go in the box and then the neutral to the third lug and also a ground conductor back to the receptacle. Also I would add another ground conductor and carry it outside of the building to a grounding rod in the ground.

Then I will make up a power cord with the corresponding connections to use when I want to plug the generator for power to the breaker box with circuits supplying the lights and receptacles inside the barn. The barn is a metal building 30x40.

Does this seem the right and safe way for this? Also I have never grounded the generator externally. It just sits on a trailer with a wood floor on a metal frame. But the instructions say to ground it to trucks and trailers but since they sit on rubber tires it kind of does not make sense to me.

But anyways if anyone can confirm my setup I would appreciate it.

 

[Arrow3030]

I think you got it. Figure out what amperage your inlet should be based on your generator. NEMA 14-xx inlet. A 14-50r is not what you want to plug into. That's called a widow maker due to the potential shock hazard.

 

[ssfarm]

Thank you Arrow. I read that the bobcat 250 can deliver 43 amps on AC at 240 and 87 amps on 120. There was a wiring diagram that showed I could just split the voltage an make a shared 120 setup but I don't want that. lol. My 5th wheel is like that for shore power.

But thank you for hanging with me on this. I just kept doubting myself for some reason but all makes sense now. By the way why do they call that 14 receptacle or plug the widow maker? Anything I should look out for or do you have a good recommendation I could follow please?

 

[Arrow3030]

http://m.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-C...xVUhwdI8dLmRQcIm20JhGhoCsSDw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
You'll want something like this from your panel. Otherwise you'd need a cord with two male ends which has major shock hazard for some poor fool

 

[Arrow3030]

My pleasure to give my input. Usually someone would have corrected my posts by now if some advice I gave was terribly wrong. I'd wait until the morning after ever ones taken their #2's if I were you.

 

[ssfarm]

Well I thank you very much for all your help and advice which I know is very good advice. Again many thanks for the help. Fixed my worries and doubts. and my electrical problem. lol. Take care.....

 

[brric]

Your proposed installation is NOT an electrical service, therefore there is no service neutral to bond to.

 

[Oso954]

Based on starting with the NEMA 14-50P, this seems to be the most common cord and inlet combination.
http://www.amazon.com/Conntek-1450SS2-25-Temporary-Generator-Connector/dp/B004NYAXK6
Check the items "frequently sold together" section for the inlet.

 

[ssfarm]

Thank you guys. Anyone ever add some type of remote start for a generator? I want to try and configure something that will allow me to remote start the engine from the house as I make my way to this barn. Not sure if that's possible but I think there is a way. Going to try anyways.

 

[Oso954]

I don't like the idea of remote starting a generator/welder. It is an accident looking for a place to happen.
With a manual start, you are in the structure and can double check welding leads etc before starting.