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Discussion Starter #21
Thanks for all the input on this guys. Like I said, I’m not the best when it comes to standards and what is going to actually work as opposed to what a chart tells me. I am going to proceed with the 3 ply beam underneath so that way no one will come back at me and say it is inadequate.
Again, thanks for all the help!!!
Don't attempt to make one long beam. beams meet on top of the posts.

So your saying not to overlap and glue/bolt the 16’ pcs of wood together to get to my desired length? Instead just make 16’ beams and butt them together at a post....
 

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retired framer
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So your saying not to overlap and glue/bolt the 16’ pcs of wood together to get to my desired length? Instead just make 16’ beams and butt them together at a post....
That is what I am saying. We have had to repair other peoples work to get a house to pass inspection and engineers do not like those laminated beams.

You don't need glue or plywood just lots of nails. Do you know how to nail them when they don't have the same crown to flush them up.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
So your saying not to overlap and glue/bolt the 16’ pcs of wood together to get to my desired length? Instead just make 16’ beams and butt them together at a post....
That is what I am saying. We have had to repair other peoples work to get a house to pass inspection and engineers do not like those laminated beams.

You don't need glue or plywood just lots of nails. Do you know how to nail them when they don't have the same crown to flush them up.
I have always ran boards through a table saw and removed the crowns and to make sure they are all exactly the same size before we nailed and connected them.
 

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retired framer
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I have always ran boards through a table saw and removed the crowns and to make sure they are all exactly the same size before we nailed and connected them.
crown is your friend and tells you the best way to go up.



Line up the ends and put a few nails at the ends and drive what we call sucker nails

Often two nails close together on a angle from the corner, don't force them just get a bigger hammer and they will line up. And then nail them off with 5 nails 16" on center. Always place them crown up.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
I have always ran boards through a table saw and removed the crowns and to make sure they are all exactly the same size before we nailed and connected them.
crown is your friend and tells you the best way to go up.



Line up the ends and put a few nails at the ends and drive what we call sucker nails

Often two nails close together on a angle from the corner, don't force them just get a bigger hammer and they will line up. And then nail them off with 5 nails 16" on center. Always place them crown up.
Thank you for that info. I never knew if taking the crown off was good or not but I figured it was prob not the best idea.
 

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Hammered Thumb
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Just throwing out the big picture again. So you've decided to split your 17'-6" span with a row of columns. That'll be on both sides of the center beam, I assume.

So I'm picturing a 23'x35' rectangle with 6 interior columns, 7'-6" to 8'-6" grid give or take, not figuring stairs. Am I interpreting this correctly (not to scale)?
greenie.jpg

So you have gutted, repouring the slab, lots of trouble and expense in having a new useable basement, soon to be with an 8' patchwork of columns and more beams sticking down. Sofas are typically 7' long, a comfortable uninterrupted area of a bedroom is min 12', seating room min 14'-16'.

You were talking about fixing a 1/4" sag. Is there a 2nd floor with the same spans?

If you don't want to rebuild the entire floor with sistering so you just accepted putting in these beams, nothing says you have to split the 17'-6" span evenly. You also have the (probably, you haven't stated) 24"o.c. spacing that can be reduced to 12"o.c., so there are ways to get wider spaces if you want to bring the structure up to modern standards.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Just throwing out the big picture again. So you've decided to split your 17'-6" span with a row of columns. That'll be on both sides of the center beam, I assume.

So I'm picturing a 23'x35' rectangle with 6 interior columns, 7'-6" to 8'-6" grid give or take, not figuring stairs. Am I interpreting this correctly (not to scale)?
View attachment 593009

So you have gutted, repouring the slab, lots of trouble and expense in having a new useable basement, soon to be with an 8' patchwork of columns and more beams sticking down. Sofas are typically 7' long, a comfortable uninterrupted area of a bedroom is min 12', seating room min 14'-16'.

You were talking about fixing a 1/4" sag. Is there a 2nd floor with the same spans?

If you don't want to rebuild the entire floor with sistering so you just accepted putting in these beams, nothing says you have to split the 17'-6" span evenly. You also have the (probably, you haven't stated) 24"o.c. spacing that can be reduced to 12"o.c., so there are ways to get wider spaces if you want to bring the structure up to modern standards.
Span of joists - ~17’ 6”
Size of joists - 2”x8” lumber 100+ years old
Spacing is 16” on center
Home is gutted.
Basement floor IS NOT poured yet.
The floors themselves are sagging without any weight on them and my concern is once we redo everything and get flooring down I am going to have problems. Especially if we tile the area (which we prob will bc the back section of area will be kitchen)
I just think the lumber was always undersized and it really never bothered people bc carpet and/linoleum was installed and they didn’t care that the floor had a little “vibration” when you walked.
 

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Hammered Thumb
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Got all that, so is the picture above the correct assumption and you are ok with all the columns making an 8'0" grid?
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Got all that, so is the picture above the correct assumption and you are ok with all the columns making an 8'0" grid?
There is only 1 single beam being installed. The beam will be in the middle of the span and there will be 3 columns for support (4th support is on top of foundation wall)
 

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You don't need plywood between them just 5 nails 16" OC.
I'm not sure what the plywood is supposed to add in this scenario. I know that sometimes when building door and window headers out of 2" lumber a plywood spacer is used to make the header the full thickness of the framing, but in that case the plywood really isn't adding much in the way of strength, it's really just there as a spacer. I'm not seeing any obvious reason to use plywood in a built up beam. If it were a steel filch plate, that would be a different story, but not plywood.
 

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retired framer
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I'm not sure what the plywood is supposed to add in this scenario. I know that sometimes when building door and window headers out of 2" lumber a plywood spacer is used to make the header the full thickness of the framing, but in that case the plywood really isn't adding much in the way of strength, it's really just there as a spacer. I'm not seeing any obvious reason to use plywood in a built up beam. If it were a steel filch plate, that would be a different story, but not plywood.

Plywood between headers is a great way to cause cracks in the header as the header is seldom as dry as plywood, so the plywood and glue are working at stopping shrinkage.

We just put a sill under the header for the drywall

An engineer had us remove and replace a 2 ply beam that had plywood inside. He explained that beams bend under load. With the normal loads like a joist, contraction on the top tension on the bottom. If the plywood stops that and has a join in the plywood all the stresses are moved to that one spot where the join is and that would be the failure point.
 

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Plywood between headers is a great way to cause cracks in the header as the header is seldom as dry as plywood, so the plywood and glue are working at stopping shrinkage.
True, I wasn't saying it was a great idea, just that it was fairly common, and it was for convenience of nailing drywall and sheathing to, rather than for structural reasons.
 

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True, I wasn't saying it was a great idea, just that it was fairly common, and it was for convenience of nailing drywall and sheathing to, rather than for structural reasons.
2x6 walls kind of delete that idea, good place for insulation on the drywall side. :biggrin2:
 

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Hammered Thumb
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There is only 1 single beam being installed. The beam will be in the middle of the span and there will be 3 columns for support (4th support is on top of foundation wall)
I am understanding all design points you've stated, except you said 23' long beam with 7'-6" spacing which makes 2 columns. But if your 23' beam doesn't span the entire length, 3 columns is even more visually intrusive. The drawing in post#26 has existing in brown, new in blue showing columns and beams. I am channeling Paul Revere to warn that your basement will be full of columns spaced about 7'-6" to 8'-6" and reduce useable area and ROI, which is exactly opposite what everyone usually likes to do. But, carry on.
 

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2x6 walls kind of delete that idea, good place for insulation on the drywall side. :biggrin2:
True, but being in Canada you'd be surprised how much residential framing is still done with 4 inch studs in the southern US. Kinda surprised me too as 6" walls have been minimum code for decades where I live. I see it all the time in the comments section of you-tube videos about house construction, guys from the South wondering why in hell anyone would waste money using 2X6's for walls when 2X4's work just fine.
 
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