[Didymus21]

OK, so here's my situation. In my garage I have a switch. When looking in the box, I see one cable coming in to power the switch. The wire has a white, black, and bare copper. The white wire has been marked red indicating it is "hot." The switch is single pole and has the marked white wire, black wire, and ground wire going into it. When this switch is "on" it fully powers two separate outside receptacles under the house eaves.

My proposal, I'd like to be able to run off this switch to power additional receptacles inside of my garage.

My plan: Remove mark on white wire and extend this existing cable into another junction box with two receptacles.

In existing switch box, add an additional outlet and the existing switch. I'd connect everything to the one existing wire and hope all the receptacles would then be powered by the switch. Is this possible?

I'm attaching pictures in the hopes this will make more sense and someone can give me feedback.

 

[Didymus21]

Breaker is off, so I'd prefer to fix anything that needs fixing prior to turning it back on. If this set up just won't work at all with what I've got, I'd like to know that. If there is an alternative wiring schematic that would accomplish my goal, I'm totally open to it.

 

[psgama]

Your switch does not have a neutral in it. It's a hot and a switched. Tag the new receptacle off of one of the existing switched receptacles.

 

[Didymus21]

The more I look at this, I figure the only way I can do it is to buy another length of cable and run a dedicated line BACK from that junction box. Then, I could keep the switch at the end of the line and be OK. Yes?

 

[Arrow3030]

That's not going to work. It is a line to neutral short on the switch. You are better off taking power from one of the eave receptacles or loosing them as being switched.

 

[Didymus21]

Your switch does not have a neutral in it. It's a hot and a switched. Tag the new receptacle off of one of the existing switched receptacles.

Thanks, I think I get what I was doing wrong now. Would you mind looking at the last drawing I posted? If I just run an extra cable from the junction box back to the source and then put the switch at the end of that line, I'd be good, right?

 

[Didymus21]

That's not going to work. It is a line to neutral short on the switch. You are better off taking power from one of the eave receptacles or loosing them as being switched.

I posted another pic. Could I just extend the cable from the eave receptacles and include the additional 3 receptacles in the circuit before having it once again terminate at the switch?

 

[Arrow3030]

....still has a short.

 

[Didymus21]

Did I just draw something wrong? I don't see how the second drawing is really any different than the existing setup, other then putting three extra receptacles in the circuit. Are you saying the original circuit had a short, too?

 

[Jim Port]

Receptacles in the garage requiremail going protection.

 

[Didymus21]

Receptacles in the garage requiremail going protection.

I think this may have autocorrected. Did you mean to say GFCI protection? I was thinking I'd just do a GFCI breaker on that entire circuit, as the outside receptacles (though covered) are not protected, either.

 

[AllanJ]

Yes you can run another cable with power to the existing switch box if you have a new receptacle there (for example a unit with one switch and one receptacle). The original wires remain attached to the switch terminals. There is no interconnection between wires of the two cables.

(For the unit with one switch and one receptacle, the little tabs between screws are bent back and forth until they break off before the wires are attached.)

 

[Arrow3030]

You have a hot and a neutral attached to a switch.....

 

[Didymus21]

You have a hot and a neutral attached to a switch.....

I think I've got it now. I'll probably just remove the switch.

 

[Oso954]

The switch and eave receptacles are primarily for Xmas lights. If you are going to use the circuit for garage receptacles, the logical place to start is the eave receptacle box where the switch loop originates. You can run a new branch from there to provide receptacles in the garage that would be hot all the time.

Your idea of just removing the switch will not work unless you also change the wiring at the the eave receptacle where the switch loop originates. The eave receptacles would become hot all the time, as well.

 

[Didymus21]

The switch and eave receptacles are primarily for Xmas lights. If you are going to use the circuit for garage receptacles, the logical place to start is the eave receptacle box where the switch loop originates. You can run a new branch from there to provide receptacles in the garage that would be hot all the time.

Your idea of just removing the switch will not work unless you also change the wiring at the the eave receptacle where the switch loop originates. The eave receptacles would become hot all the time, as well.

Thanks, Oso. The thought dawned on me when I woke up this morning and things became more clear. I'll see if that area is accessible to me. Otherwise, I could still keep the switch if I rewired it like the image below, correct? The picture below also makes the assumption that I've rewired the last eave outlet so that the white wire is no longer hot.

I'm not against having the eave receptacles hot all the time. It'd be one less switch to flick when I want to use my electric edger outside and not run a cord from the garage.

 

[Didymus21]

OK, I finally did the intelligent thing and explored the attic.

Below you will find the current setup for the switch. There are three receptacles going into a junction box in the attic. The switch is actually connected directly to the source line.

If I wanted to keep the switched receptacles and have the new garage outlets fully powered all the time, what would I have to do here?

Thanks for the help guys, I think I'm getting close here and now that you have more information you could provide better assistance.

 

[Oso954]

If both eave receptacles are switched, the wiring change is at the first receptacle (electrically) not the last.

Assuming you make that change, per your new diagram (post 16), only the lower 1/2 of the garage receptacle is switched, if you break the tab on the hot side. So, way the switch ? If you don't break the tab, that receptacle is hot all the time and the switch does not control anything.

IMO, I would leave that circuit alone. I would pick up power at a receptacle that is already on the garage circuit, or bring in a new garage receptacle circuit from the panel.

 

[Didymus21]

If both eave receptacles are switched, the wiring change is at the first receptacle (electrically) not the last.

Assuming you make that change, per your new diagram (post 16), only the lower 1/2 of the garage receptacle is switched, if you break the tab on the hot side. So, way the switch ? If you don't break the tab, that receptacle is hot all the time and the switch does not control anything.

IMO, I would leave that circuit alone. I would pick up power at a receptacle that is already on the garage circuit, or bring in a new garage receptacle circuit from the panel.

Oso, check out post #17, I think I submitted the update the same time you posted. This should clear up how the switch is working in this circuit. It makes more sense to me now, so I know I left out important information for you because I was making assumptions that did not exist. With the way it's wired now, how could I make it so that the eave receptacles remain switched, but I run the garage receptacles hot all the time? Is that possible?

If not, I think I'll take your advice and just run a new dedicated line from the panel.

 

[jeffmattero76]

At the switch there is an "incoming" always hot black wire. I always wrap a piece of yellow electrical tape around this wire so that, if i ever have to work in this box again, i know which wire is the incoming hot. In any case, take that incoming hot off of the switch. Cut a 6 inch long piece of black wire of the same gauge (called a pigtail). Connect one end of the pigtail to the switch. Using a wire nut connect the other end of the pigtail, the incoming hot, and the new black wire that will supply the always hot new receptacles (3 wires total). Connect the new white to the existing whites (cslled the neutral wire), and connect the new bare copper wire (the ground wire) to the existing bare copper wires. That will make the new receptacles always hot and will not change the other receptacles. Hope that helps.

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