[02920diy]

I have lots of questions about adding a 2nd floor to my house. It isn't going to be a DIY project, but I want to know as much as I can before talking to contractors.

My existing house is pretty basic. 29'x64' including the garage, but the part I'd like to build above will be 29'x44, stopping before the garage. 2x4 walls, and the floor and roof are both 14' 2x10's that overlap in the middle of the house. It is a shed roof, well, it has one slight pitch to the back of the house, will have to measure, but I'll say its a foot drop from the front to back 29'.

Its a bummer that it has a pitch, or that roof would make a fine floor :/ Ceilings are connected right too it, so it can't easily be disturbed to make it level.

Right now, I would just want it dry on the 2nd floor. I can DIY any finishing, and just having storage would be a huge plus.

So how complicated of a job is this going to be?

Easiest approach seems to be ordering gambrel room-in-attic trusses, then I guess the low side needs to be built up so they are level?

But that leaves a bit of sq ft that could be usable space.
So I suppose it would be a bit more work but a fake gambrel would maximize the space, not look much difference but COSTS???? The floor would still have to be leveled on the 2nd floor.

Thanks all. Nothing but questions here, and looking for some input

 

[02920diy]

This is what I meant by a 'fake gambrel.' Something like this:
http://www.libertynaturepreserve.com/user/cimage/10-24-10-27-09-025smalladjust.jpg

 

[Bud9051]

Ho 029,
You will essentially be building a ranch on top of your existing house. Are you ready for the $60,000 investment (just a rough estimate)? Even a little at a time, it will be that much.

With an improvement of this size you need to have the plans drawn by an architect so the builder will have something to follow and the town will have something to approve, the building permit. Without the plans in advance you are at the mercy of your contractor. You may also want to get the approval of your bank if you have a mortgage as they are essentially the owners of the house.

Bud

 

[joecaption]

We have no pictures, no plans, no location, how would anyone be able to even guess?
Need to be dealing with someone local and hope they they have there ducks in a row to get this dried in ASAP so it does not destroy anything below
Just need storage then adding a garage or shed would be far cheaper.

 

[02920diy]

We have no pictures, no plans, no location, how would anyone be able to even guess?
Need to be dealing with someone local and hope they they have there ducks in a row to get this dried in ASAP so it does not destroy anything below
Just need storage then adding a garage or shed would be far cheaper.

Honestly the house is as basic as the description, I didn't think a pic was needed, but here you go. Front to back, there is a 1ft drop, front ceiling is 8ft high, back ceiling is 7ft. inside is about 28ft wide.
It has a rubber roof on it now, if it can't be left on, it could be pulled up after the rest is dried-in so there is some leeway in the ASAP nature.

To get the same amount of storage space (1200sq) out of a garage, I assume it would be the same expense for the wood part of the building, plus the cost of clearing the land, and the cost of a slab.

I'm in RI. I appreciate the perspectives. Like I said, I'm trying to gather info before approaching someone local.

 

[02920diy]

Ho 029,
You will essentially be building a ranch on top of your existing house. Are you ready for the $60,000 investment (just a rough estimate)? Even a little at a time, it will be that much.

With an improvement of this size you need to have the plans drawn by an architect so the builder will have something to follow and the town will have something to approve, the building permit. Without the plans in advance you are at the mercy of your contractor. You may also want to get the approval of your bank if you have a mortgage as they are essentially the owners of the house.

Bud

Thanks, I didn't think about the mortgage company. Good tip there
60 wouldn't be bad. You thinking that for just the dry-in? or the other work finishing too?

 

[Bud9051]

Hi 029,
When you ask for bids, ask for both your approach and removing the entire ceiling and creating 8' walls all the way around. I have a friend who build a home the way he wanted and ignored how others might view it. Cost him a bundle when he sold. That sloped ceiling on the inside with a makeshift gambrel above will be less than desirable for many. And the cost of removing the roof and creating a traditional 2-story may not be all that bad.

A framing crew would be fast and you could be dried out in a week. Let the crew go ahead and restore the downstairs and leave the upstairs for you.

Remember, electrical, plumbing, and heating will all need to be extended or inlarged to handle the added space.

Bud

 

[Bud9051]

Dry-in will be less and how much for the rest depends upon what is going up there, bathrooms, windows, flooring. But a new furnace, plumbing, electrical (maybe a new panel and new service entrance) all new roof, it will be expensive. Builders develop ballpark numbers like $85 a sq ft. You won't need a foundation, but in some areas, $85 is low. I roughly used $50 and that is low for a finished job. How much you can do and how much that will save is unknown.

In years past dealing with banks, they wanted ALL work to be done by an established contractor as they have been stung too many time being left with a half finished house. And they don't want to wait more than a few months.

Having been a contractor one of the aspects of making improvements is to establish the before and after value of the home. Then compare that increase to the cost of improvements. In your case, IMO, you will be making a huge investment, both time and dollars, and see only a part of that added to the finished home. There are some web sites where you can see what an expansion adds to the value, some are good and others are terrible.

Lots to consider.

Bud

 

[02920diy]

Hi 029,
When you ask for bids, ask for both your approach and removing the entire ceiling and creating 8' walls all the way around. I have a friend who build a home the way he wanted and ignored how others might view it. Cost him a bundle when he sold. That sloped ceiling on the inside with a makeshift gambrel above will be less than desirable for many. And the cost of removing the roof and creating a traditional 2-story may not be all that bad.

A framing crew would be fast and you could be dried out in a week. Let the crew go ahead and restore the downstairs and leave the upstairs for you.

Remember, electrical, plumbing, and heating will all need to be extended or inlarged to handle the added space.

Bud

Man, I don't disagree, but I have an aversion to upsetting the house too much. Personally, the low end of the ceiling only bothers me in the kitchen, but there is a nice 8ft slider taking up most of that space. I could see a compromise situation where just the kitchen ceiling is raised, as that is where it would have most impact, but the other rooms don't bother me.

For heat, the boiler should be good for the added space, right now I have it running on the smallest nozzle, so I should have room to go up with it, and the pipe has a capped additional zone t. Electrical I'd have an electrician put in a sub box upstairs, and I'd go from there. I'd get a pro to plumb the drains on an upstairs bath.

But taking cost/return in value, would it make most sense to just go with an room-in-attic truss? There would still need to be space made for windows, which would just be framed otherwise, and add to costs...

Thanks for the input!

 

[Oso954]

What type of foundation do you have and are you sure it will take a second story ? It may just be your sketch, but it makes me ask the question.

 

[kwikfishron]

In my neck of the woods adding a second story (assuming the foundation and first floor walls will handle a second story) would run between $80-130 a square foot. Could even be higher depending on the level of finishes.

If you want real numbers get off of the internet and get local bids.

 

[jlhaslip]

Sell it and buy a bigger house.
There is no easy or cheap way to fix this issue. Especially as a DIY.

 

[Bud9051]

Thanks Kwik, in the range I was afraid of, been awhile. And 029, your walls and existing ceiling can't be used as is as part of the addition.

In line with jl's post, what you have is a functioning home and can sell as is. If you have a substantial equity, then applying that to another home with the space you want would be a lot easier.

Those replying here could DIY what you are wanting, and most would not try, I wouldn't. I always make sure what I build will be desirable to everyone looking in the future, because that future comes along a lot faster than we think.

As for the truss top instead of a second floor, less expensive, but half the space.

Not to pry, but do you have cash for this or were you planning to get a loan? Going for a loan would require a detailed presentation from that experienced builder and would probably need to be a completed package. But, you would need to be starting with a very low or no mortgage on what you have.

Bud

 

[02920diy]

What type of foundation do you have and are you sure it will take a second story ? It may just be your sketch, but it makes me ask the question.

Poured foundation. Goes down at least 4ft. For lack of measuring, it seems a standard width. The crawl space is at least 3ft too, very easy to move around in.

In my neck of the woods adding a second story (assuming the foundation and first floor walls will handle a second story) would run between $80-130 a square foot. Could even be higher depending on the level of finishes.
If you want real numbers get off of the internet and get local bids.

Thanks! Doing my homework before go looking for buds.

Sell it and buy a bigger house.
There is no easy or cheap way to fix this issue. Especially as a DIY.

Location! It would be easier to try and talk me into leveling this one and starting from scratch

Thanks Kwik, in the range I was afraid of, been awhile. And 029, your walls and existing ceiling can't be used as is as part of the addition.

In line with jl's post, what you have is a functioning home and can sell as is. If you have a substantial equity, then applying that to another home with the space you want would be a lot easier.

Those replying here could DIY what you are wanting, and most would not try, I wouldn't. I always make sure what I build will be desirable to everyone looking in the future, because that future comes along a lot faster than we think.

As for the truss top instead of a second floor, less expensive, but half the space.

Not to pry, but do you have cash for this or were you planning to get a loan? Going for a loan would require a detailed presentation from that experienced builder and would probably need to be a completed package. But, you would need to be starting with a very low or no mortgage on what you have.

Bud

Cash depends on how what gets done and how high it creeps, and what I want to dip into. Money is still pretty cheap to borrow, so either way, borrowing wouldn't be bad if the extras you mention drive up costs too much.

So the existing walls can't be used, then is it columns in the walls to support beams across the front, back and middle? Then its just build on that?

 

[Bud9051]

It's not that the walls have to be removed, but as I mentally go through the process I can see sections of drywall needing to be removed for access to install electric, plumbing and heating. By the time your contractor messes around opening up sections as needed it would be faster and not all that more expensive to remove the ceiling and roof, and ceiling joists. Add to the existing walls to make the resulting floor level. Install full length "I-joists". Then the subfloor above. With the ceiling open all of the utilities can be easily reconnected or installed new and the walls and framing above can proceed.

I can't see an easy way, and it would be expensive.

If you leave the ceiling in place, how would they install the utilities for the second floor as the subfloor has to go in before the walls go up?

Bud

 

[02920diy]

It's not that the walls have to be removed, but as I mentally go through the process I can see sections of drywall needing to be removed for access to install electric, plumbing and heating. By the time your contractor messes around opening up sections as needed it would be faster and not all that more expensive to remove the ceiling and roof, and ceiling joists. Add to the existing walls to make the resulting floor level. Install full length "I-joists". Then the subfloor above. With the ceiling open all of the utilities can be easily reconnected or installed new and the walls and framing above can proceed.

I can't see an easy way, and it would be expensive.

If you leave the ceiling in place, how would they install the utilities for the second floor as the subfloor has to go in before the walls go up?

Bud

Utilities aren't to bad actually, not too much to do for access.

One access needed for the electrical sub-panel on the second floor. Then you feed the wires out from the sub panel.

Forced hot water heat, so you only need 2 1" holes for the in and out of the loop to and from the boiler. I still like copper, but it would be even easier with pex.

Similar for the plumbing. Place the bath above the existing bath, and you just have to go up through the ceiling in one spot for the drains, and the hot and cold water feeds. There is a bedroom closet right behind the current bathroom. It would be easy to give 1 sq foot to a drain, and then box it in. It would be out of the way, and the space wouldn't be missed.

But the amount of work opening the space for columns? How many columns would you need to support a beam along a 44ft wall? And is a beam across the middle needed with the 28ft width? Or will I-joists run 28ft?

 

[gregzoll]

Lets not forget that the neighbors have first say, before the city council or county approves the license to build. You are really just dong a full blown remodel, because you are keeping the original home, but making it into a new home.

Once you find out how much it is going to cost with all of the permits, storage fees for all furnishings, having to rent an apartment or condo, while all of this work is going on, if you currently have a mortgage, you may not get approved for this second mortgage to do the house how you like it.

If it is on a crawl space, the existing footers may not be enough to carry all of that extra weight, since they were only made to support the one story structure.

Then lets not forget that when they start ripping off the roof, you are going to have a huge tarp or tent over the house, while all of this is done. Also add in any repairs that need to be done to the existing structure, if they start finding problems after opening up the attic area, you will not get a sub-panel, you will end up with a new panel and possibly having to get your service upgraded to handle the extra load.

Just because your boiler is using the smallest fuel nozzle, is not how it works in these matters. It may not be able to handle the upstairs and you may have to either go with Mini-Splits, or a whole new boiler upgrade and other equipment needed.

Right now it all sounds good. But when you figure in the amounts above the price per sqft, you would be better off selling and buying a larger home for your needs, which would save you more in the long run.

Lets not forget your age and if you are willing to take on the extra debt load if you are close or in your 50's and may not be able to afford the mortgage notes from this work.

The construction can be a guess of $60k in theory. It could actually end up costing you up to $300k, depending on what upgrades, who is hired, all of the repairs to the yard and landscaping, etc..

 

[gregzoll]

Is it really worth it, since market values are still down in a lot of area, along with this will raise your property taxes higher then you may realize. http://www.bankrate.com/finance/real-estate/add-2nd-story.aspx

Top five questions and answers on adding a second story. http://legaleaglecontractors.com/da...top-five-questions-about-2nd-story-additions/

Article from the SFGate about this kind of work. http://homeguides.sfgate.com/expected-costs-adding-second-floor-ranch-house-102963.html

 

[02920diy]

Lets not forget that the neighbors have first say, before the city council or county approves the license to build. You are really just dong a full blown remodel, because you are keeping the original home, but making it into a new home.

Neighbors shouldn't care, the lot is a couple of acres, no one close, and the house won't be oversized when done, of course you never know who might say what. Calling it a remodel is a good tip

Once you find out how much it is going to cost with all of the permits, storage fees for all furnishings, having to rent an apartment or condo, while all of this work is going on, if you currently have a mortgage, you may not get approved for this second mortgage to do the house how you like it.

By not removing the existing roof, I was hoping to stay, and not put anything in storage.

If it is on a crawl space, the existing footers may not be enough to carry all of that extra weight, since they were only made to support the one story structure.

So there might be x number of footings needed to be poured depending on columns needed?

Then lets not forget that when they start ripping off the roof, you are going to have a huge tarp or tent over the house, while all of this is done. Also add in any repairs that need to be done to the existing structure, if they start finding problems after opening up the attic area, you will not get a sub-panel, you will end up with a new panel and possibly having to get your service upgraded to handle the extra load.

I have a rubber roof now. I don't care if its left on. Or even pulled up after the new roof is dried in. Not sure why I would need a new panel, not just a sub panel. My current panel is maxed out anyway, so I need a sub if I want to add anything else.

Just because your boiler is using the smallest fuel nozzle, is not how it works in these matters. It may not be able to handle the upstairs and you may have to either go with Mini-Splits, or a whole new boiler upgrade and other equipment needed.

No worries if I need a another boiler. I'm oil fired with no gas service near me, & due to oil to gas conversions, I can get a decent boiler on craigslist for a good price.

Right now it all sounds good. But when you figure in the amounts above the price per sqft, you would be better off selling and buying a larger home for your needs, which would save you more in the long run.

Lets not forget your age and if you are willing to take on the extra debt load if you are close or in your 50's and may not be able to afford the mortgage notes from this work.

The construction can be a guess of $60k in theory. It could actually end up costing you up to $300k, depending on what upgrades, who is hired, all of the repairs to the yard and landscaping, etc..

All valid concerns, thank you. I'm trying to address how I have considered them in my answers, let me know if those are not valid methods.

 

[gregzoll]

You are more than welcome to ask questions about this. But really as all of us are stating, is that there is no way anyone on the Internet knows what the work will involve, including the fact that you are going to be dealing with a whole neighborhood of other home owners and property owners, that if there is only ranches, they could object to the addition.

You are really better off selling and buying a new home. Now of course there is a way to get around the whole new build, as long as you just leave one or two walls up from the original house, if your Building license office and the county board or city council approves after your fellow citizens have been given their chance to voice their opinion.