[eliotssc]

I took down a knotty pine wall covering to add insulation to a room in my house and discovered significant old termite damage to the sill, studs, and a long header that is above two windows on that exterior wall. This is old damage and there are no active termites. The exterior wall is part of a 1 story ranch and that room is on a concrete slab. I have had a few contractors come in for quotes and essentially received 2 different approaches on how they have proposed to address it. The quotes received vary dramatically as the highest is almost triple the cost of the lowest quote - likely due to a big difference in approach. No approach is "cheap", but some are really expensive. I was hoping to get an opinion on the validity of the less expensive approach.

All agreed that at least several feet of the sill, a few wall studs, and at least several feet of the header needed to be replaced due to termite damage. The less expensive approach (#1) involves putting in a temporary 2x4 wall, cut out and replacing several feet of the sill that is on the exterior slab, replacing damaged wall studs and replacing a section of the damaged header. Then, the bottom section of plywood sheathing along the sill on the outside will be replaced (quote doesn't include house wrap and reshingling). Several feet of the termite damaged header (two 2x6s about 12 feet long) above the 2 windows will be cut out and replaced. This header was original to the house before that room/wall was later converted to finished living space from a breezeway.

Approach #2 involves demoing all of the studs, sill, header, sheathing, and reframing that wall. The 2 windows will be reinstalled, the entire exterior sheathing, house wrap, and cedar shingle siding will be replaced, even though only the sheathing closest to the damaged sill appears to be termite damaged. This additional scope of work is probably why the quote is more than double - almost triple the price of approach #1.

Approach #2 sounds fine, except for the quoted price I have received (note: I am still awaiting another quote on this scope of work). Approach #1 with the reduced scope of work is about 1/3 the price of the 1st quote from approach #2 (but still not cheap). Usually a 1/3 the price of another quote sounds too good to be true and may be a red flag, but the price on approach #1 was more in line with what I was expecting and the price on approach #2 was a shock... All contractors seem reputable based on preliminary research and no obvious red flags from in person meetings.

Is approach #1 a feasible and a structurally sound plan? Any concerns I should have with this approach? Based on price, I would obviously prefer the significantly less expensive option, but don't want to take on an approach that may be substandard, not pass inspection, and/or balloon in cost significantly after the initial quote and scope of work is agreed. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Nealtw]

I would like to see pictures of the damage, the actual structure of the wall, sometimes these kind of additions are questionable from the start.

I would also be interested in the closeness to the ground outside. This was likely the problem to start with and you need to know the plan for dealing with it.

 

[eliotssc]

I would like to see pictures of the damage, the actual structure of the wall, sometimes these kind of additions are questionable from the start.

I would also be interested in the closeness to the ground outside. This was likely the problem to start with and you need to know the plan for dealing with it.

I will try to post some photos tonight. The termite damaged wall was part of an addition that was done many years ago. It turned what was once a partial wall as part of a breezeway into a full exterior wall to enclose a finished living space. There is no visible damage from the outside... but where the lowest cedar shingles meet the concrete slab is obviously not sealed (other than by paint) and may not be protected properly.


You are right about the closeness to the ground outside being a problem. There is a small section of slab where the clearance from the earth outside is only about 2 inches in the lowest part of the sill and cedar shingled siding. I bought this house almost a year ago and nothing about this was mentioned by the home inspector. The sellers disclosed known termite damage in 2 other sections of the house, but nothing was disclosed related to this particular wall. I had a WDI inspection performed prior to purchase and there were evidence of drill holes from previous termite treatments. The seller was only aware of termite damage in two other areas of the house they had found a year earlier, and a termite baiting system was installed and maintained after that (of which I have continued to have maintained). I think the termite baiting system is fine for now, and going forward I may consider removing the dirt and putting loose stone or something along the foundation near the slab where the clearance is only between 2" - 4".

 

[Nealtw]

I will try to post some photos tonight. The termite damaged wall was part of an addition that was done many years ago. It turned what was once a partial wall as part of a breezeway into a full exterior wall to enclose a finished living space. There is no visible damage from the outside... but where the lowest cedar shingles meet the concrete slab is obviously not sealed (other than by paint) and may not be protected properly.


You are right about the closeness to the ground outside being a problem. There is a small section of slab where the clearance from the earth outside is only about 2 inches in the lowest part of the sill and cedar shingled siding. I bought this house almost a year ago and nothing about this was mentioned by the home inspector. The sellers disclosed known termite damage in 2 other sections of the house, but nothing was disclosed related to this particular wall. I had a WDI inspection performed prior to purchase and there were evidence of drill holes from previous termite treatments. The seller was only aware of termite damage in two other areas of the house they had found a year earlier, and a termite baiting system was installed and maintained after that (of which I have continued to have maintained). I think the termite baiting system is fine for now, and going forward I may consider removing the dirt and putting loose stone or something along the foundation near the slab where the clearance is only between 2" - 4".

There are a bunch of pluses to completely changing the wall.
And cost is always a consideration, you just don't want to spend money fixing up what is already a disaster.

Either way the fix for the bottom of the wall is a flexible flashing that sticks to the wall and concrete and seals out water and bugs.

Cover that with a width of galvanized sheet steel and start the wood siding up by a few more inches, leaving 6" to 8"of steel showing when done.

 

[ron45]

Do yourself a favor and call in a pro to determine the amount of damage.

Allow them to make access holes, etc..

Your house might depend on it.

 

[eliotssc]

Do yourself a favor and call in a pro to determine the amount of damage.

Allow them to make access holes, etc..

Your house might depend on it.

I already brought in 3 general contractors to look at it and I have most of the interior wall covering already removed to expose the stud walls and sill... who else are you recommending that I bring in when you say bring in a pro?

 

[eliotssc]

There are a bunch of pluses to completely changing the wall.
And cost is always a consideration, you just don't want to spend money fixing up what is already a disaster.

Either way the fix for the bottom of the wall is a flexible flashing that sticks to the wall and concrete and seals out water and bugs.

Cover that with a width of galvanized sheet steel and start the wood siding up by a few more inches, leaving 6" to 8"of steel showing when done.

Thanks for the information, Nealtw. This sounds like it will be a good approach on the low clearance side where the slab does not extend outside the wall of the house.

On the outside of the wall/house, however, most of the concrete slab floor extends out a few inches past the exterior siding of the house. In that section the cedar shingle siding and sheathing protects the sill from the outside... however, I also suspect that over time rain water may have pentrated between the outdoor section of concrete slab floor and behind the vertical cedar shingle siding/sheathing into the sill. There is termite damage to the sill (it is hollowed out), but it also looks like there may be dry rot...? From the outside of the house, I can't see anything between the cedar shingle siding and the concrete slab. The home inspector didn't note anything about this area, but I'm not sure if this is done right... Any idea how this normally should be protected? This section of sill looks like it was added as part of an addition/renovation many years ago (and the wood/sheathing definitely looks different from the other original wood of the house)... I believe it was renovated in the mid 90s, but haven't checked building records to confirm.

 

[Nealtw]

Thanks for the information, Nealtw. This sounds like it will be a good approach on the low clearance side where the slab does not extend outside the wall of the house.

On the outside of the wall/house, however, most of the concrete slab floor extends out a few inches past the exterior siding of the house. In that section the cedar shingle siding and sheathing protects the sill from the outside... however, I also suspect that over time rain water may have pentrated between the outdoor section of concrete slab floor and behind the vertical cedar shingle siding/sheathing into the sill. There is termite damage to the sill (it is hollowed out), but it also looks like there may be dry rot...? From the outside of the house, I can't see anything between the cedar shingle siding and the concrete slab. The home inspector didn't note anything about this area, but I'm not sure if this is done right... Any idea how this normally should be protected? This section of sill looks like it was added as part of an addition/renovation many years ago (and the wood/sheathing definitely looks different from the other original wood of the house)... I believe it was renovated in the mid 90s, but haven't checked building records to confirm.

It is much the same you just start the flex about 1 " from the wall on the concrete and go up the wall behind the wrap and the cover and protect that with a hard flashing that also goes behind the wrap and start the siding a few inches up.

 

[Nealtw]

Something like this with flex flashing below and behind the base flashing.

 

[Nealtw]

and like this when at the edge of the deck, there is a primer to help this stuff stick to concrete.

 

[eliotssc]

I would like to see pictures of the damage, the actual structure of the wall, sometimes these kind of additions are questionable from the start.

I would also be interested in the closeness to the ground outside. This was likely the problem to start with and you need to know the plan for dealing with it.

Photos attached.


The one exterior wall covers my den and a 4x5 ft 1/2 bathroom.

 

[eliotssc]

More photos.

Outside wall, siding, and slab. Also, photo of the bathroom ceiling fan vent that was above a drop ceiling... joists are nailed in the knotty pine and the hole for the vent pipe was drilled through the header... the same one that is destroyed by termites to the right, in the den area.

 

[Nealtw]

More photos.

Outside wall, siding, and slab. Also, photo of the bathroom ceiling fan vent that was above a drop ceiling... joists are nailed in the knotty pine and the hole for the vent pipe was drilled through the header... the same one that is destroyed by termites to the right, in the den area.

By time they got it apart to fix it they would be saying, I'm sorry, there isn't enough left, we will have to replace the whole wall.


I think to fix it right you would still take most or all siding off and then you have little left.


So you were right into ripping the panelling off, why are you not thinking about doing this work yourself?

 

[eliotssc]

By time they got it apart to fix it they would be saying, I'm sorry, there isn't enough left, we will have to replace the whole wall.


I think to fix it right you would still take most or all siding off and then you have little left.


So you were right into ripping the panelling off, why are you not thinking about doing this work yourself?

Thanks for the feedback, Nealtw. Approach #2 is starting to look like the consensus. I just hope I can find someone to do it for a better price than what I have already been quoted. I'm a first time home owner and have owned this house less than a year. I don't have any experience with framing and siding and would prefer to have someone with more experience do this. Also, my wife and I both work full-time, we have a 3 year old, and I travel a lot for work, so finding enough time to do an additional scope of work like this is nearly impossible for me at this point. It has been tough enough for me to find time to take out the knotty pine, insulate, and drywall. However, I want to learn enough about how it should be done right, so that I can make sure I hire a pro with a good plan and have some idea if they are doing a good job or not.

 

[Nealtw]

Thanks for the feedback, Nealtw. Approach #2 is starting to look like the consensus. I just hope I can find someone to do it for a better price than what I have already been quoted. I'm a first time home owner and have owned this house less than a year. I don't have any experience with framing and siding and would prefer to have someone with more experience do this. Also, my wife and I both work full-time, we have a 3 year old, and I travel a lot for work, so finding enough time to do an additional scope of work like this is nearly impossible for me at this point. It has been tough enough for me to find time to take out the knotty pine, insulate, and drywall. However, I want to learn enough about how it should be done right, so that I can make sure I hire a pro with a good plan and have some idea if they are doing a good job or not.

So we should figure out what exactly needs to be done so you can write the scope so everyone is quoting the same job. Get out of that apples and oranges. Sometimes when you just start with contractors you get less than best suggestions because the guy is judging your mood or attitude.

 

[eliotssc]

So we should figure out what exactly needs to be done so you can write the scope so everyone is quoting the same job. Get out of that apples and oranges. Sometimes when you just start with contractors you get less than best suggestions because the guy is judging your mood or attitude.

Agreed on quoting the same job and making sure it isn't one at high risk of scope creep like approach #1. Now that I know what the approach should be (approach #2 - replacing the whole wall), I will do that (once I run it by the boss). I could be wrong, but I don't think the suggestion was because of my mood or attitude. The guy from approach #1 was running late (though he left me a voicemail and texted me 30 minutes in advance to let me know), seemed a little rushed, was on the younger side (less experienced?), and spent less time looking at the wall than the two other guys. He did also say that as he did the repair, the scope could increase depending on what they find as they removed the termite damaged wood. Given that his quote for the reduced scope of worked seemed reasonable, I am likely to go back to him to get a revised quote for approach #2 and see what he comes up with. I am still awaiting a quote from guy #3 who described nearly the same scope of work as the other guy with approach #2...

 

[Nealtw]

Agreed on quoting the same job and making sure it isn't one at high risk of scope creep like approach #1. Now that I know what the approach should be (approach #2 - replacing the whole wall), I will do that (once I run it by the boss). I could be wrong, but I don't think the suggestion was because of my mood or attitude. The guy from approach #1 was running late (though he left me a voicemail and texted me 30 minutes in advance to let me know), seemed a little rushed, was on the younger side (less experienced?), and spent less time looking at the wall than the two other guys. He did also say that as he did the repair, the scope could increase depending on what they find as they removed the termite damaged wood. Given that his quote for the reduced scope of worked seemed reasonable, I am likely to go back to him to get a revised quote for approach #2 and see what he comes up with. I am still awaiting a quote from guy #3 who described nearly the same scope of work as the other guy with approach #2...

do you know which direction the ceiling joist and rafters are going.

If one or other or both of these land on the wall a temp wall will be needed.

I doubt the shingles will be salvageable. The wall could be made weather tight and would be fine for a while if you wanted to do siding yourself in the spring. I would suggest vinyl if you can find one that would not look to out of place with the rest of the house.

 

[eliotssc]

do you know which direction the ceiling joist and rafters are going.

If one or other or both of these land on the wall a temp wall will be needed.

I doubt the shingles will be salvageable. The wall could be made weather tight and would be fine for a while if you wanted to do siding yourself in the spring. I would suggest vinyl if you can find one that would not look to out of place with the rest of the house.

The rafters and joists are perpendicular to the wall. Both quoted approaches included building a temporary wall. I am not surprised if the shingles are not salvageable. I like vinyl siding but I am skeptical I can find one that would match well, especially since this wall faces the front yard and street. The sellers left us some exterior house paint in the basement that they used before the sale... hopefully it is still good so that I can use it on the new shingle siding. I am undecided about the siding... but leaning towards throwing it in the scope of work and just leaving the painting to myself. I had several replacement windows installed last year and I haven't gotten around to painting/touching up the exterior window trim. I am probably going to save my limited time in the spring to work on that and spend more time with the family since I have been spending a lot of weekends (when I am not traveling for work) on house related stuff over the past year.

 

[Nealtw]

These windows will be re installed You can google rainscreening windows for that it is to make them leak proof, well actually all windows will leak at some point this deals with the water that does get in. I think shingle will be expensive and like the most expensive to install. Sometimes you can do a section of vertical to complement a house.

 

[eliotssc]

These windows will be re installed You can google rainscreening windows for that it is to make them leak proof, well actually all windows will leak at some point this deals with the water that does get in. I think shingle will be expensive and like the most expensive to install. Sometimes you can do a section of vertical to complement a house.

Hmmm... I am considering doing more work like siding myself since I am in a high labor cost area and I am still in sticker shock over the quote I already received... but I have no idea how long it would take me to do siding. Although we bought a house that needs some updating and repair, we were fortunate enough to buy a house on a good piece of land in a desireable town and neighborhood. However, I think some contractors don't quote as competitively in my area since a lot of my neighbors are well to do and don't seem to be very price sensitive. I have seen some big quote discrepancies on other things I have had quoted since I have moved here when doing apples to apples quote comparisons...



Nealtw, the photo above has roofing shingles and I didn't see siding shingles from them when I went to the company website. Is that why you attached the photo? Thanks again for your help.