[DIherself]

When I lift the cup manually, the cup rises and stops the water. Is there a way to unstick it....for future reference, cuz that's the least of my problems:

The water line is delineated by a black line painted on the back wall of the big tank of my old Crane Hanover toilet in Tampa Bay. Heretofore, the water had been set below the black line to save it.

Should the water line land on the black line?

Does the delineated water line on the tank set the positions of the other parts of the fill and flush valves: gotta be 1 inch here, 3 inches there, put this above the lever, end of tube can't touch water in the overflow pipe, don't let cap touch the lid, etc. etc.

The flapper is leaking into the bowl (food coloring), there's a slow leak that completely drains the water from the tank overnight and leaves no water on the flapper.

The fill valve is only about two years old; I installed it myself. Maybe I should clean the tank real good and buy a whole 'nother fill valve, BUT if it's just a $ part, maybe this is a golden opportunity to learn all about it so I don't have to go through this again and keep buying the whole of it. It's been three days already of trying to figure it out.....

Luckily, the bowl holds its own -- water, that is. But it was losing water at first, which alerted me in the beginning that something was awry. It has since corrected itself.

Thank you?

 

[hkstroud]

Ever think about starting at the beginning, like Subject.


I think you are talking about a toilet but you could be talking about putting on eye make up.

 

[DIherself]

I thought about it for half a second, but decided most plumber people would know a fill-valve float cup goes in a toilet, not a bra.

 

[dj3]

I just had to deal with a pink toilet and tank from the 1950s, about 4 months ago.
The lady wanted to keep the toilet, so I suggested re-doing everything inside the tank, it took me less than 2 hours, including a trip to the store.
Complete kits are available, and if not, find individual parts.
Go to YouTube and watch some vids.

 

[huesmann]

If the bowl was losing water, you may have a crack. I think it was hk that posted a pic in a similar thread.

 

[hkstroud]

Well I don't know much about bras but I do know toilets.

A toilet fill valve does have a float. A float, not a float cup. It is my understanding that bras do have cups, some are better filled than others.

A fill valve determines when the water should be turned on to refill the tank and when to stop the flow of water so as to not overflow the tank. It has nothing to do with the flush valve which allows water to flow from the tank to the bowl at rapid rate and large volume.
Sounds like you may have a Fluidmaster fill valve which is of excellent quality and will last a life time. The only part that deteriorates is the seal. Which can easily be replaced for about $3.

The flush valve consist of the valve itself which is simply a large opening with a nut to attach the valve to the tank, and a rubber or neoprene gasket to seal the valve to the toilet bowl. The flush valve also includes some type of rubber seal to stop the flow of water from the tank to the bowl and also includes an overflow tube. Most flush valves employ a flapper type seal which is simply a rubber gasket with a dome shaped cavity that uses trapped air to keep the flapper open until the water level in the tank reaches a certain level.
Other types of flush valves use other types of rubber gaskets to stop the flow of water to the bowl.
The rubber flapper can deteriorate and leak. It is easily replace as I'm sure you know. However, the surface to which the flapper seals can also deteriorate. When that happens the entire flush valve assembly can be replaced (involves removing the tank and replacing the flush valve assembly) or repair kits can be used to provide a new surface for the flapper to seal.
These kits are adhered to the existing flush valve with silicone and provide new pivot points for the flapper it self.
It sounds like that is what you need. Easy to install, no tools required. Check you local Home Depot or Lowe's.


Hopefully helpful hints:
The top of the overflow tube should be below the level of the flush handle. Otherwise the possibility of water flowing out the flush handle opening before flowing out the overflow tube exist.


The refill tube between the fill valve and the overflow pipe should be attach to the top of the overflow pipe, not stuck down in the overflow pipe. If placed down in the overflow pipe, water can be siphoned from the tank to the bowl and will look just like a leaking flapper valve.
Vinegar is an excellent cleaning agent for both the tank and bowl of a toilet. It does no harm to the glazing of the bowl. Periodically pour about a pint in the tank to clean the tank. Also pour about a pint down the overflow pipe. The pint going down the overflow pipe will clean the holes under the rim of the toilet and clean the sides of the bowl as it flows down. It then sits in the bowl until the next flush, bleaching out the bottom of the bowl.

 

[DIherself]

I was errouneously clipping the fill tube as far as it would clip down the overflow pipe, so I'll lift it up from the water, as you suggest. And I'll buy a $3 seal for underneath the cap and try that. I'll buy a flapper and save that for trying last.

If the bowl has a leak, the water will eventually recede or drain out, regardless of the fill valve or the flush valve or empty tank or anything else, right? So I'll let the tank go dry and see what the bowl does.

Another thread here gave a pro-and-con link of fill valves, which said FldMaster's con was that it only lasted a couple of years. Could be because of really hard water that is really hard on parts.

Okay, so off to Home Depot now until tomorrow.

Thank youz.

 

[hkstroud]

I was errouneously clipping the fill tube as far as it would clip down the overflow pipe

That is probably what is making you think the flapper is leaking.

When the seal in the fill valve is defective The water coming into the tank will either not stop (sound of water running continuously) and overflow out the overflow pipe or the fill valve will not fill up the tank. Not fill the tank is most often. You have not indicated either of those. Seals usually last 3 to 5 years. The seal in the Fluidmaster valve in my basement bath (which is the one I use the most) is probably 20 years old. There is a technique to changing them that I like to use. Post back if you decide to replace the seal.


For now I suggest that you wait and see.



Easiest way to check for leaking flapper is to hold down the float until water runs out the overflow pipe, turn off the stop valve. Go away for a period of time. Come back later. If water level is still at the top of the overflow pipe, you do not have a leaking flapper.


No marking water level, no dye, no thinking. Just don't flush during this period of time.

 

[DIherself]

I lifted the fill tube up yesterday before I got your latest message, so it's not that anymore.

Here's where it stands right now: The water filled the tank and bowl and stopped, sounding and looking normal. I pushed down on the flapper, then poured green food coloring into the tank and went to Home Depot.

When I got back just now, the tank water had receded .25 inch -- a slow quiet leak.

The bowl now has green water. I don't think the bowl is leaking anymore, at least it hasn't for the past three days.

Should I still hold down the float until water runs out the overflow pipe?

 

[hkstroud]

Should I still hold down the float until water runs out the overflow pipe?

That is just an easy way to check to see if you have a leaking flapper. You can check again if you wish.

The bowl now has green water.

Sound like you very well may have a leak. Since you have already replace the flapper a couple times I recommend the kit below. Check to make sure that your flapper is 2" before purchase, most are.

 

[DIherself]

I haven't done anything yet, hk, except buy a Fluidmaster repair kit, a Fldmaster seal, and flapper (at Lowe's, not Home Depot, typo).

There was only one Fluidmaster flapper available to buy separately, a 504 with numbers 1-Max on it to adjust the flush flow. A surprise. Wouldn't letting go of the flusher early do the same thing?

Never heard of a Korky till now. I don't know about me siliconing a new rubber seat on old drain seat, quirky. Seems it would be difficult to remove the silicone years later if need be.

I guess the thing to do now is to replace the flapper. Any objection?:smile:

 

[hkstroud]

Not necessarily recommending the Korky brand although Korky is a good brand. Just trying to convey the concept of providing a new surface for the flapper to seal against. I think any brand of repair kit would do.

Seems it would be difficult to remove the silicone years later if need be.

Worry about that tomorrow. If you ever have to do that you will be removing the tank from the bowl and replacing the entire flush assembly.

 

[DIherself]

I am glad to know about Korky. I like the idea a lot. Thank you for the "heads up." I haven't changed my flapper yet, can you believe. I need the whole day, because if I have to clean the old flush drain seat to use the Korky, I might as well clean my old drain seat AND my old flapper and see if it still leaks into the bowl, right? If the old clean parts still leak into the bowl, then I'll do the next part. Can't do it today. Thank you!

 

[SeniorSitizen]

I am glad to know about Korky. I like the idea a lot. Thank you for the "heads up." I haven't changed my flapper yet, can you believe. I need the whole day, because if I have to clean the old flush drain seat to use the Korky, I might as well clean my old drain seat AND my old flapper and see if it still leaks into the bowl, right? If the old clean parts still leak into the bowl, then I'll do the next part. Can't do it today. Thank you!

A few years ago i did that. Cleaned the valve seat with an acid to eliminate any possibility of hard water calcium build up. It looked and felt perfect but still leaked. The Korky rebuild kit was the answer for this one. They are simple to install following the step by step directions on the package.

 

[hkstroud]

I certainly misunderstood. Thought you had change the flapper a number of times. So if you haven't changed the flapper please do so now. Easy, cheap and will most likely fix the problem.

 

[DIherself]

Okay, I will change the flapper now to the FldMaster 504 that I just bought and get back to you tomorrow morning at the latest, cuz I know I'm on the edge of my seat about it......

 

[DIherself]

The new flapper fixed it, hk, looking, sounding and flushing perfectly, water line stopping at the same place every time. Thank you very much, saved me $$$, learned a lot. It felt wonderful to put the lid back on it after days.

Senior Citizen, thank you for saving me from scrubbing the seat in vain. That would've done me in.

I'll remember Korky.

 

[hkstroud]

Wonderful. Take yourself out to dinner.