[Alkay201]

Hey Guys, Im having this issue that two gutter companies haven't been able to help with. As you can see on the pics below, every time it rains, a water stain appears on the brick below the gutter.

We've tried caulking, installed a kickout flashing, expanded the gutter, nothing seems to works.

I'm thinking it has to do with the space at the bottom of the gutter where it meets the brick.

Any thoughts?

 

[chandler48]

Aside from the gutter being pitched the wrong way??? Ray Charles could see that. Surely your gutter people could.

 

[PatChap]

You have much bigger problems than the gutter leak.
Appears you have no flashing on your shingles, just lots of caulking.
If you had a semi properly flashed wall, you could have someone add a kick out flashing at the eave
This would direct the majority of water into the gutter.

Unless theres something I cant see, you need a pretty extensive repair.

 

[joed]

Please don't post the same question more then once.

 

[dj3]

From the pics, you seem to have 2 problems:
- Can't tell how the shingles were done, but as mentioned, I see no flashing along the wall and the shingles. Proper installation must have the flashing rise at least a few inches with sealant behind it on the wall.
- The gutter seems to start 1/2" away from the wall. As mentioned, check the angle on the gutter and make sure the water drains down the spout. Get up there with a hose and test it. Are the gutter and spout clean?

 

[huesmann]

Aside from the gutter being pitched the wrong way??? Ray Charles could see that. Surely your gutter people could.

Well, we can't tell about the gutter, but the soffit sure is back pitched.

 

[Alkay201]

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone!

 

[Alkay201]

Its actually pitched correctly

 

[Alkay201]

From the pics, you seem to have 2 problems:
- Can't tell how the shingles were done, but as mentioned, I see no flashing along the wall and the shingles. Proper installation must have the flashing rise at least a few inches with sealant behind it on the wall.
- The gutter seems to start 1/2" away from the wall. As mentioned, check the angle on the gutter and make sure the water drains down the spout. Get up there with a hose and test it. Are the gutter and spout clean?

Yep, the flashing was never installed. But I think you hit the nail on the head with the gutter being 1/2 inch away from the wall. Logically, that should be were the issue is coming from:glasses:

 

[Alkay201]

You have much bigger problems than the gutter leak.
Appears you have no flashing on your shingles, just lots of caulking.
If you had a semi properly flashed wall, you could have someone add a kick out flashing at the eave
This would direct the majority of water into the gutter.

Unless theres something I cant see, you need a pretty extensive repair.

I agree. I wonder how come the inspector didn't see this when doing his report ...

 

[Nealtw]

They had 3 choices on how to do it, this way, that way or do nothing.

You need a brick guy or a roof guy or both.
I think you need a step flashing and a counter flashing over them

https://www.google.ca/search?q=step...mg&ei=G1PEXrOYEs-7-gTTrJ7wDQ&bih=502&biw=1093

 

[Orangeman6]

I have a hard time believing there’s no step flashing in that wall. Its hard to tell on my phone, but it looks like some type of foam sealant was sprayed there? That’s beyond poor workmanship, if there’s none there.
The correct method would be step flashing interwoven with each shingle, and a kick out flashing at the bottom ensuring everything went into the gutter.
It’s a fixable issue. We used to do it all the time when re-roofing houses where the flashing needed to be replaced. A groove can be cut into the brick to insert counter flashing over the top of new step shingles. Snap a line and run a saw down the wall with a diamond masonry blade set to the right depth. Brick is butter to a good diamond blade. Caulk the counter flashing where it goes into the brick. An easier, but not as good method, is to run the step flashing against the wall, then install a piece of trim covering it. Bevel the top of the trim at a 45. That method is easier but relies too much on caulk for me.


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[Windows on Wash]

Is that caulking between the brick and the shingles...massive red flag.

 

[Alkay201]

I have a hard time believing there’s no step flashing in that wall. Its hard to tell on my phone, but it looks like some type of foam sealant was sprayed there? That’s beyond poor workmanship, if there’s none there.
The correct method would be step flashing interwoven with each shingle, and a kick out flashing at the bottom ensuring everything went into the gutter.
It’s a fixable issue. We used to do it all the time when re-roofing houses where the flashing needed to be replaced. A groove can be cut into the brick to insert counter flashing over the top of new step shingles. Snap a line and run a saw down the wall with a diamond masonry blade set to the right depth. Brick is butter to a good diamond blade. Caulk the counter flashing where it goes into the brick. An easier, but not as good method, is to run the step flashing against the wall, then install a piece of trim covering it. Bevel the top of the trim at a 45. That method is easier but relies too much on caulk for me.


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Yep, definitely poor workmanship, I will need to address that. However, I dont think that is the reason for the water leaking onto the brick. It looks like its because the gutter is about half an inch away from the brick and there is no sealant.

 

[Orangeman6]

Yep, definitely poor workmanship, I will need to address that. However, I dont think that is the reason for the water leaking onto the brick. It looks like its because the gutter is about half an inch away from the brick and there is no sealant.

I agree with you that whatever is going on with the step flashing, or lack of it, may not be what’s causing your problem. You do have to wonder why whatever that is where the wall meets the roof (still looks too thick to be caulk or sealant looking at the pics on my phone. I’m guessing foam) was put in there. It’s really inconceivable that anyone would not install some type of flashing there. I was just discussing fixes for missing or worn out step flashing on something where you can’t get behind the siding.

Can you get up there and get a picture? It would sure help. Get a picture of whatever that is put on there, and one where the kick out flashing comes to the gutter. We’re just making guesses looking at pictures from the ground. You might even be able to see the flashing. The shingles are not supposed to be pushed right against the edge of the flashing where it 90’s to the roof. They’re supposed to be left shy just 1/4 to 3/8 so the water can move down easily.
I don’t agree that the problem is the gutter not being sealed to the brick. That is not standard or something that is normally needed. In fact, jamming the end of the gutter into the siding, then sealing it, would be a no-no. If that was wood siding, would you want a metal gutter jammed up against it trapping moisture against the wood? No, it would cause rot.
The correct way is step flashing overlapping a kick out that directs the water into the gutter. The back side of the kick out should be sealed, but that doesn’t seem to be your problem.


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[3onthetree]

It sure looks like the problem is you have a straight gutter overflow guard (or splash guard/splash diverter/gusher guard) instead of a proper kick out flashing. The gap between the gutter end and wall will be there, it doesn't matter if it's 1/2" or 1/8". Now, to install the kickout flashing properly depends on the roof-to-wall flashing that is there (or not there).

Elsewhere I do see some flashing on the top side of the porch roof, but again looks like none is existing on the side wall there, so chances are none is up above where you are looking at presently. I would be concerned about this porch too, you can see wet bricks and splashback from that leader elbow. That elbow angle should be tighter, however a short leader into the lower gutter is even better.

 

[Alkay201]

I agree with you that whatever is going on with the step flashing, or lack of it, may not be what’s causing your problem. You do have to wonder why whatever that is where the wall meets the roof (still looks too thick to be caulk or sealant looking at the pics on my phone. I’m guessing foam) was put in there. It’s really inconceivable that anyone would not install some type of flashing there. I was just discussing fixes for missing or worn out step flashing on something where you can’t get behind the siding.

Can you get up there and get a picture? It would sure help. Get a picture of whatever that is put on there, and one where the kick out flashing comes to the gutter. We’re just making guesses looking at pictures from the ground. You might even be able to see the flashing. The shingles are not supposed to be pushed right against the edge of the flashing where it 90’s to the roof. They’re supposed to be left shy just 1/4 to 3/8 so the water can move down easily.
I don’t agree that the problem is the gutter not being sealed to the brick. That is not standard or something that is normally needed. In fact, jamming the end of the gutter into the siding, then sealing it, would be a no-no. If that was wood siding, would you want a metal gutter jammed up against it trapping moisture against the wood? No, it would cause rot.
The correct way is step flashing overlapping a kick out that directs the water into the gutter. The back side of the kick out should be sealed, but that doesn’t seem to be your problem.


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Thank you for such a detailed and informative response! I have a gutter cleaning company coming out next week for a cleaning and I will ask them to take pictures from up top to see exactly whats going on!!

 

[Alkay201]

It sure looks like the problem is you have a straight gutter overflow guard (or splash guard/splash diverter/gusher guard) instead of a proper kick out flashing. The gap between the gutter end and wall will be there, it doesn't matter if it's 1/2" or 1/8". Now, to install the kickout flashing properly depends on the roof-to-wall flashing that is there (or not there).
View attachment 599829
View attachment 599831

Elsewhere I do see some flashing on the top side of the porch roof, but again looks like none is existing on the side wall there, so chances are none is up above where you are looking at presently. I would be concerned about this porch too, you can see wet bricks and splashback from that leader elbow. That elbow angle should be tighter, however a short leader into the lower gutter is even better.

Looks like im going to have to call a roofing company to get a qoute for the step/counter flashing and correct kickout

 

[Orangeman6]

Looks like im going to have to call a roofing company to get a qoute for the step/counter flashing and correct kickout

Can you get up there and take some better pictures?


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[Alkay201]

Can you get up there and take some better pictures?


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Unfortunately I don't have a ladder that big. Will have to wait
for the gutter company to come by.