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The lizard didn't get electrocuted from touching the hot leg while sitting on that plastic insulator.
Well as OP measured, there was 120V between C and D. If the break point was where the bus attached to the breaker, then the lizard could've gotten across it.

He said he can actually order a new panel for $450+ and use the same guts in that panel to swap mine out, new breakers new bus new lugs the only thing old will be the enclosure.
Yeah, the manufacturers put many panels in a few "box sizes". If you can identify the box size, and find another panel with that same box size, then yeah.

Just, I'm really, really surprised to hear of that working on a panel that old. Either Siemens hasn't changed their box sizes for 50 years (possible), or your guy found a new-old-stock panel of that vintage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Well as OP measured, there was 120V between C and D. If the break point was where the bus attached to the breaker, then the lizard could've gotten across it.

Yeah, the manufacturers put many panels in a few "box sizes". If you can identify the box size, and find another panel with that same box size, then yeah.

Just, I'm really, really surprised to hear of that working on a panel that old. Either Siemens hasn't changed their box sizes for 50 years (possible), or your guy found a new-old-stock panel of that vintage.
I asked him if he is getting the box with the same exact guts with the same exact main breakers, he said it will be a different type of main breakers with only one switch, So I am not sure what exactly he is planning. If he is just getting a new panel with a new gut and trying to retrofit that into my old enclosure resulting in a hodge podge this would be a bad idea even if the gut physically match right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Assuming your guy is doing this right, the main breaker won't matter. He's getting an entire panel - box, guts and cover. The guts and cover will be fitted onto your box.
Well this didn't come out the way I want to.

The electrician came this morning and right off the bet I noticed the panel he has is not the same as the one I have, same width but much shorter in height. So I asked him if the box are not the same the guts will not be the same, and the new dead front can't be used, and the old one will not be in alignment. He said don't worry it will fit we do this all the time. I had to go to work (in retrospect I should have taken a day off but I couldn't work from home due to power will be out all day so no internet I had to run into the office). Around 2pm I called and ask how it's going and the reply was everything is smooth sailing and they are moving along fine.

I left work a little early to check on them and they were just finishing up. As expected the new dead front is too short, the old dead front they had cut and modified to fit the new guts.

This was what I had.



This is what they end up with.



My original dead front slots have been cut lower. I tried to remove it and it won't even remove without turning the upper right breaker off because it's so tight. The original quad breaker spot is now a much wider single switch breaker and they covered the extra space with two 4x4 blanks. There is an uneven slot at the bottom of the main breakers about half an inch tall.

The "new" inside.



If you are curious, yes I paid him, he put in the time but it's a hack I am not happy with. This all started with a set of bad breakers leading to "the guts are loose and not in the greatest shape so let's replace the guts" to "the guts don't fit the dead front so let's modify the dead front". Wasted time and wasted money.

So now I need to figure out a way to undo this, and I know this is irreversible. What are my options?

Do I try to find an used or new old stock of this enclosure and hire another electrician to install a compatible guts with a new dead front?

If that fails then I have to change out the entire enclosure right?
 

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I think the guy earnestly meant to give you a bargain, given the ugly alternatives. And that is a bargain.

Yeah if you can find a panel with that exact same box, I'd do that.

Otherwise, the pop riveting of 2 junction box lids to cover the panel hole is the hokiest thing I've ever seen and screams "NEC 110.12". I'd get a 10" wide piece of that gauge steel and do a more proper job of it, use the same rivet holes so you don't leave glaring unused rivet holes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
I think the guy earnestly meant to give you a bargain, given the ugly alternatives. And that is a bargain.

Yeah if you can find a panel with that exact same box, I'd do that.

Otherwise, the pop riveting of 2 junction box lids to cover the panel hole is the hokiest thing I've ever seen and screams "NEC 110.12". I'd get a 10" wide piece of that gauge steel and do a more proper job of it, use the same rivet holes so you don't leave glaring unused rivet holes.
Thank you seharper. I am scratching my head on a long term solution about this, because this is not going to fly if I ever need to have this inspected in the future, either when I need to pull an electric permit, or when I need to change insurance for the house which requires a new 4 point inspection report (plumbing electric roof HVAC).

Seems this thread is running out of steam as the issue kept evolving from one to another. I am going to start a new thread to discuss this latest issue here:


Please comment there instead to further the discussion. Thank you!
 
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