[paniller]

I'm a first time deck builder. I submitted plans, specifying 4x4 posts atop 8" poured footings. The original plans were approved, revised plans were approved, and the footings were signed off on. Now, that inspector quit, and the new inspector is demanding 12" footings as per the code I overlooked, failing the framing inspection.

Does anyone know a method to reinforce the footings? He is failing them for shear strength, as the posts are only 2 inches from the edges of the concrete. He suggested I hire an architect to override him, as the posts are only 10" high and it may pass shear load specs as is (3" standoff, 10" post, 9.25" beam, 7.25" joist).

Has anyone else made this mistake? Are there 8" stainless steel sleeves I can put around the concrete as a workaround?

 

[rjniles]

Dig down a few feet. Install a 12" Sonotube over 8" and pour concrete. If the posts are installed, split the Sonotube to install.

 

[paniller]

Would that be up to code? I'd imagine the outside added concrete would just immediately crack within a few months, because they're not one piece.

It'd probably sneak by if the inspector didn't already see it. But he already said I can't add concrete, and needs to inspect holes again if I dig.

I was leaning towards new posts next to the old, but it's still a major pain to dig in rocky soil, with all the framing already in place (12" joist spacing)

 

[joecaption]

Your right, new concretes not going to bond to the old and would be a waste of time.

 

[paniller]

What if I make the additional concrete 16 inches around? That would give me a 4 inch concrete ring around the original, instead of a 2 inch ring that would crumble.

It'd float independent of the main footing, but would it add the inward support needed?

Thinking that, with a 8" galvanized steel clamp between for additional shear support.

 

[mako1]

Last time I had an isuue like this I went to a structural engineers office.Showed him the plans which he stamped in a heart beat .Gave him a hundred and left.My issue was more involved than yours but still would be well worth the money.

 

[paniller]

Looks like all the structural engineers here want $500 minimum, and push $750 for a redesign.

I'm really pissed the inspectors pulled this on me. They wouldn't tell me the code when I asked originally, so I proposed 8" footings on my plan as a starting point. They signed off on that 3 times, and now share the actual state building code. They just say "Yeah, we shouldn't have approved that. It needs to be redone."

It would have been 0 extra work to do the wider footings, had they told me to before there was a two level octagon deck above it.

 

[Bud9051]

Since it was approved, you could take it to the appeals board. Success there varies, but it was their mistake as well. Be sure to mention the rocky soil as it may help them bend the rules, rocky soil can hold more weight.

How deep is that 8" poured footing and where are you?

Bud

 

[paniller]

I'm in northern NJ.

Soil shouldn't be the issue. I mushroomed the bottom out 4 inches wider under the frost line, 6 inches where the soul was softer. All the bases are 16- 20 inches. I calculated the psf ratings for every post as proof, and they were 3x what was needed.

They're only concerned about the top of the footing, where the post connects. They want 12 inches, 4" edge to post, in case the edges crumble.

 

[Msradell]

Did you embed the posts in the concrete or did you put brackets on top of the concrete to attach the posts? If the posts are on top of the piers with brackets it shouldn't be a problem at all. If they truly are embedded in the concrete (which isn't recommended) they are going to be quite simple to breaking out of the concrete with any movement.

If you pour concrete around the existing footings you could put some rebar rings in that concrete to prevent separation of the 2 pieces of concrete. The rebar would provide considerable additional strength.

 

[paniller]

I have it on top with a simpson connector, to prevent rotting and allow periodic replacement. Literally everything is overengineered except the footings, because I clarified them in the original plans and didn't want to stray...

If you guys think he will pass a wider cement ring around that, I can give that a go. I was thinking 16" diameter, to make the ring 4" wide, then maybe 16" deep for the weight to spread downward at a 45 degree angle.

Think a steel clamp around the original post to hold it tightly together is a good idea? Then cement around that.

If that doesn't pass, I give up. Not much more I can do, painted into a corner. All the engineers here want $750 just to look at my plan.

 

[Fix'n it]

He is failing them for shear strength, as the posts are only 2 inches from the edges of the concrete.

the posts are only 10" high and it may pass shear load specs as is

ask if you can put in a larger post. or why not move the post over ?


this is a very low deck ?

pics ?

 

[carpdad]

Ask if additional pier/post will work. He is a bit uncommon to fail mis-centered post. I've done the same on a 12" pier and did get a comment, but passed. NJ also. Are all posts mis centered? Because of this kind of problem as well as soil problems, I always use 12" pier if anything is high enough to need railing.

 

[paniller]

picture should be a thousand words. Inspector only seems concerned about the upper level (for now, anyway)

 

[paniller]

One of the footings. 8" post, 2x10 beams. 2x8" joists. Around 28.5" total final height

 

[paniller]

The posts aren't miscentered. The code just calls for 12" concrete for 4x4 posts, to allow 4" of cement edge around the post.

Technically, the deck doesn't even need a railing, it is below 30 inches.

 

[carpdad]

The new inspector may want to start his career with a new slate. Not much you can do.
But he may want the numbers, not the exacting quality.:smile:
You could modify (bigger adjustment hole with better washers) the post base and move it closer to center and you could move the post as well in relation to the beam. Inch or two out of the span specs will not matter here. The post does not have to sit exact center of the base, etc, and I think combination of these two adjustments could get you out of this problem.

 

[Fix'n it]

that will be a nice looking deck right there.

being that low, idk how that asshat finds issue. apply for a variance and tell them what you told us. if that doesn't work, talk to your alderman.

 

[SPS-1]

Technically, the deck doesn't even need a railing, it is below 30 inches.

Need to check local codes --- some places use 24" as max without railing.

 

[paniller]

I could definitely dig and move the posts. The posts are 18" from the beam ends so they're less visible. So I can move them in, or outside the existing posts.

The soil is just a nightmare and rocky for the top 24 inches. It was hard enough digging on open ground, let alone with a beam and 12" joist spacing blocking the way.

I'm leaning towards a 6" concrete ring with the rebar ring inside, around the existing post. Maybe add a third post in the center of each beam that is a true 12" post. Depth requires for the concrete addition? I'd assume below the frost line again, but was hoping just 12" because it can float a bit.